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HARVARD COLLEGE
LIBRARY

GIFT OF THE

GOVERNMENT
OF THE UNITED STATES

INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA— PART 1

Since these hearings are consecutively-
paged they are arranged by page nimber instead
of alphabetically by title.

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIYES

EIGHTY-FOURTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

MAY 15 AND 16, 1956

Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities
(INDEX IN PART 2 OF THIS SERIES)

HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARY

DEPOSITED BY THE

JJNI7ED STATES GOVERNMENT:

AUG 29 1956

UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
79079 WASHINGTON : 1956

INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA— PART 1

HEARINGS

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OE EEPEESENTATIVES

EIGHTY-FOURTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

MAY 15 AND 16, 1956

Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities

(INDEX IN PART 2 OF THIS SERIES)

HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARY

DEPOSITED BY THE

.UNHED STATES GOVERNMENX

AUG 29 1956

UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
79079 WASHINGTON : 1956

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Representatives

FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois

CLYDE DOYLE, California BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York

JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee DONALD L. JACKSON. California

EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio

Richard Arens, Director
n

CONTENTS

Part 1
May 15, 1956:

Testimony of— Pase

Norman C. Pixler 4075

Philip Reno'- 4081

Dwight Spencer 4088

Donald D. Plumb 4098

Afternoon session:

Arlyne Plumb (Mrs. Donald D. Plumb) 4105

Edward J. Scheunemann 4117

Bellarmino Joe Duran 4125

May 16, 1956:

Testimony of —

Bellarmino Joe Duran (resumed) 4145

Virgil Akeson 4150

Anthony Morton 4157

Graham Dolan 4169

Afternoon session:

R. (Ray) C. Moorehead 4179

Bernard W. Stern 4188

Harold C. Sanderson 4194

Eunice Dolan (Mrs. Graham Dolan) 4200

Part 2

May 17, 1956:

Testimony of — -

Morris Wright. 4205

Alfredo C. Montoya 4214

Rudolph B. Cook 4229

Afternoon session:

Harold Page Martin 4237

Harold Meier 4248

Richard Aspinwall 4253

Irving Blau 4260

May 18, 1956:

Testimony of — -

Arnold Berkens 4266

David Bramhall 4267

Shirley Bramhall ( Mrs. David Bramhall) 4273

Martha Correa 4278

Kenneth N. Kripke 4283

Alfonso Sena 4286

Fred Trujillo 4287

Eugene Deikman ^ 4288

Morris Judd 4291

David Eakins 4293

Ann Eakins (Mrs. David Eakins) 4295

Jesus Bernardino Sauceda 4297

Judith Sauceda (Mrs. Jesus Bernardino Sauceda) 4298

Richard Demming 4298

Index i

Public Law GOl, 79th Congress

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress (1946), chapter
753, 2d session, which provides :

Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States
of Ameriea in Congress assembled, * * *

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Rule X

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES

« * « 4: * * *

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members.

Rule XI

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities.

(A) Un-American Activities.

(2) Tlie Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit-
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent,
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congi-ess in any neces-
saiT remedial legislation.

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting,
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, pai^ers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.

RULES ADOPTED BY THE 84TH CONGRESS

House Resolution 5, January 5, 1955
*******

Rule X

STANDING COMMITTEES

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress,
the following standing committees :

*******

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members.

*******

Rule XI

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
*******

17. Committee on Un-American Activities.

(a) Un-American Activities.

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee,
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char-
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu-
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in
any necessary remedial legislation.

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance of
such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and to
take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under the
signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.

INVESTIGATION OF C03IMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA— Part 1

TUESDAY, MAY 15, 1956

United States House of Representatives,

Subcommittee of the
CoMMmEE on Un-American Activities,

Denver^ Colo.

PUBLIC hearing

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities con-
vened, pursuant to call, at 10 a. m., in the courtroom of the United
States Court of Appeals, Tenth Circuit, Post Office Building, Hon.
Francis E. Walter of Pennsylvania (chairman) presiding.

Committee members present: Representatives Francis E. Walter,
of Pennsylvania ; James B. Frazier, Jr., of Tennessee ; and Harold H.
Velde, of Illinois.

Staff members present: Richard Arens, director; Courtney E.
Owens, and W. Jackson Jones, investigators.

Tlie Chairman. The committee will be in order.

This subcommittee of the House Committee on Un-American Ac-
tivities is pleased to be in Denver, Colo., this week.

Let the record show that for the purpose of the hearing I have ap-
pointed as a subcommittee of the full committee Congressman James B.
Frazier, Jr., of Tennessee, and the former distinguished chairman of
this committee, Mr. Velde, of Illinois, and mysel£

The Congress of the United States has imposed upon this committee
the duty of investigating the extent, character, and objects of un-
American propaganda activity in the United States, and the diffusion
within the United States of subversive and un-American propaganda
that is instigated from foreign countries or is of a domestic origin and
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by
our Constitution, and all other questions in relation thereto that
would aid Congi'ess in any necessary remedial legislation.

I might add that because of an editorial which appeared in one
of the local newspapers, this is not an individual undertaking on my
part, but I liappen to be here because of the duty imposed upon me by
the Congress of the United States.

This committee has devoted much time in the past years to the inves-
tigation of the subject of communism, and the committee has endeav-
ored to keep Congress informed of the extent and the objectives of
the Communist conspiracy within this country.

In the performance of this huge task the committee, in its reports
to Congress, has made in excess of 40 recommendations for legislation

4073

4074 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

by Congress designed to aid in the fight against this Communist con-
spiracy, all but a few of which have been enacted into law.

In carrying out the statutory duties imposed upon this committee,
the committee proposes in this hearing to continue its investigations
of the extent, character, and objectives of Communist activities in
this general area and in all other areas to which information developed
may lead, as well as to investigate all other questions in relation
thereto which would aid Congress in any necessary remedial legis-
lation.

In recent months the committee has received extensive testimony in
Chicago, 111., and Washington, D. C, relating to the Comunist Party
activities and infiltration nito various agencies of the United States
Government.

During the course of these hearings testimony was received divulg-
ing the existence of heretofore undisclosed Communist Party cells
which had operated in various Government agencies at various loca-
tions throughout the country. The committee was particularly privil-
eged to receive the testimony of Mr. Herbert Fuchs, who is well known
to some residents of this area.

Mr. Fuchs was a Director of the Disputes Division of the National
War Labor Board in Denver, Colo., in 1943 and 1944, and Vice Chair-
man and public member of the Ninth Eegional War Labor Board in
1944 and 1945, He later became Assistant General Counsel to the Na-
tional Labor Relations Board in Washington, D. C, in 1946 and 1947,
and solicitor to the National Labor Relations Board in 1947 and 1948.

Mr. Fuchs afforded this committee invaluable testimony and infor-
mation dealing with the past infiltration and activities of the Commu-
nist Party within certain Government agencies.

The committee has never relaxed its efforts to determine if such Com-
munist cells did exist, who were the leaders, what were their objectives,
and whether they may still be operating.

It is indeed obvious that it is of paramount importance that this
committee ascertain fully and completely what success, if any, the
Communist Party had in the infiltration of our Federal Government
system and to recommend remedial legislation to prevent any future
degree of success by the Communist Party in this field.

The committee has had under almost constant study Communist
Party activities of individuals who occupy places of leadership in the
field of labor with the view of recommending appropriate remedial
legislation. This will be the subject of a substantial part of this
hearing.

The committee will also continue here to inquire into Communist
"colonization" of industry. Communist infiltration into the profes-
sions, and Communist Party activities in general in the Rocky Moun-
tain area, and I might add we hope to be able to demonstrate the
manner in which the Communist conspirators take advantage of peo-
ple and put them in front to do their bidding for them.

To those witnesses who decide that they will give us the benefit of
their knowledge, I have this to say : You will have the heartfelt thanks
of your fellow Americans and you will have made a worthy contribu-
tion to the cause of a free world.

It is the standing rule of this committee that any person named in
the course of a hearing as a member of the Communist Party, shall be
given an early opportunity to appear before this committee, if he

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4075

SO desires, for the purpose of denying or explaining any testimony ad-
versely affecting him. I might add, under oath. Should such an
occasion arise, the individual concerned should communicate with a
member of the staff or with me.

Those present in this hearing room are reminded that you are the
guests of the committee. Disturbances of any kind or audible com-
ment during the course of the testimony, whether favorable or un-
favorable to any witness or the connnittee, will not be tolerated. For
infractions of this rule, the offender immediately will be asked to
leave the room.

Our thanks go to Judge Samuel G. Bratton for the use of his court-
room, to all the law-enforcement agencies, and to the many private
citizens who have so willingly cooperated with the committee's staff
during its preliminary investigation. Judge Bratton has asked
me to caution all of you that there will be no smoking at any time dur-
ing the use of the courtroom.

Will you call your first witness, Mr, Arens?

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Norman Pixler, please.

Please remain standing, Mr. Pixler, while the chairman admin-
isters the oath to you.

The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, please. Do you
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Pixler. I do.

The Chairman. Will you sit down, please.

TESTIMONY OF NORMAN C. PIXLER

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.

Mr. Pixler. Xorman C. Pixler. I live at 1750 South Franklin,
Denver, Colo. I am a labor-management consultant in the trucking
industry.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Pixler, would you kindh' give us a thumbnail
sketch of your early life, prior to the time that you became self-
sufficient, where you were born and a word about your education,
please, sir.

Mr. Pixler. I was born in Eaton, Colo., ]\Iarch 14, 1914, and went to
public schools there and graduated from high school in 1932. In
1932 I attended Colorado State College of Education. I received
my A. B. degree from that institution in 1936 and in 1937 I worked on
my master's degree.

In 1937 I taught history and political science and economics at
Union High School, Westminster, Colo., a suburb of Denver. That
was from 1937 to 1939.

In 1939 I went to work as a project supervisor for the National
Youth Administration.

Mr. Arens. "WHiere was that, please, sir?

Mr. Pixler. In Denver. I worked for that agency until approxi-
mately September of 1942. I was then hired as a teacher of history
at the War Relocation Authority camp at Granada, Colo. I was a
resident of Lamar, Colo., for approximately 2 months at that time,
and I then came to Denver and secured employment as a labor econ-

4076 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

omist with the Ninth Regional War Labor Board, starting, I believe,
on November 28, 1942.

I worked for the National War Labor Board from November of
1942 until December 1944. In December 1944 I went to work as tlie
head of the research department for the Teamsters Joint Council No.
54 in the city of Denver, which is a joint council of the International
Brotherhood of Teamsters, Chauffeurs, Warehousemen, and Helpers
of America.

I worked for the teamsters until April of 1948, and following the
April period I established my own business as consultant to the truck-
ing industry in October of 1944. I have been engaged in that capacity
since that time.

Mr. Akens. Does that complete the chronology of your employment,
Mr. Pixler?

Mr. Pixler. That is right.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a Communist ?

Mr. Pixler. No.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been solicited to join the Communist
conspiracy ?

Mr. Pixler. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly in your own words, Mr. Pixler, tell us
the circumstances of the solicitation, by M'hom, and where it took
place ?

Mr. Pixler. Following, within a very short period, approximately

1 month from my emploj^ment by the Ninth Regional War Labor
Board, Mr. Dwight Spencer invited me to come to his motel apartment.

Mr. Arens. Would you hesitate a moment, please, sir. Identify
Mr. Dwight Spencer.

Mr. Pixler. Mr. Dwight Spencer is an individual I knew who
worked for the National Youth Administration. He was at that time
in some capacity with the Regional War Labor Board.

Mr. Arens. Was that in 1942?

Mr. Pixler. That is correct.

Mr. Arens. Proceed, if you please, in your own words.

Mr. Pixler. Mr. Spencer invited me to this meeting several days
prior to it. He checked several times during the day before this meet-
ing that night, which was to take place around 7 or 7 : 30 at night. I
went to his motel, and at this meeting in my presence were Mr. Phil
Reno.

Mr. Arens. Will you identify Mr. Reno, please, sir.

Mr. Pixler. Mr. Reno at that time was employed in some capacity
with the Ninth Regional War Labor Board.

Mr. Arens. Had you known Mr. Reno prior to the time that you
laid eyes upon him in the motel ?

Mr. Pixler. Yes; for approximately, I would say, 18 months to

2 years.

Mr. Arens. Was there anyone else present ?

Mr. Pixler. There was a Mr. Charles Bina.

Mr. Arens. Identify him, please, sir.

Mr. Pixler. Mr. Bina — at that time — I do not know whether he
was employed or not by the Federal Government.

Mr. Arens. Had you known him prior to meeting him on that
occasion ?

Mr. Pixler. Yes, sir.*

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4077

Mr. Arens. How did you know him?

Mr. PixLER. I knew him when he was connected either with the
Works Progress Administration or subsequently, I believe, employed
by the National Youth Administration.
Mr. Arens. Was there anyone else present ?

Mr. PixLER. There was a Mr. John Murphy or McMurphy. I
forget.
Mr. Arens. Identify him, please, sir.

Mr. Pixler. He was from New Mexico, and I believe he was con-
nected formerly with the National Youth Adininistration.
Mr. Arens. Proceed and tell us what transpired.
Mr. Pixler. Sliortly after all these people had arrived or were
there, Mrs. Spencer left the room. Mr. Reno, Mr. Philip Reno, pro-
ceeded to take the floor and proceeded to state — it was his observation
and his feeling that the present economic system was decadent, that
in substance a better life could be had for all people of the world
and of the United States by being members of the Communist Party
or participating in Communist activities. The sum and substance
is that after approximately, I would say, 45 minutes to an hour of that
type of conversation, I was ofl'ered membership in the party by those
present, either by Mr. Reno being the spokesman for the group or by
those others that I knew there.

I was told what the dues would be and activities of that sort, how
my wife would tit into those activities and things of that sort.

Mr. Arens. Did Spencer identify himself to you as a Communist?
Mr. Pixler. All five who were present identified themselves as
Communists.

Mr. Arens. I want to be specific. Did Dwight Spencer identify
himself to you as a Communist?

Mr. Pixler. I cannot say directly that he said, "I am a Communist,"
if that is what you mean.

Mr. Arens. He solicited you to join the Communist Party ; is that
coi'rect 'i

Mr. Pixler. He certainly did.

Mr. iVEENS. Did Pliilij) Reno solicit you to join the Communist
Party ?
Mr. Pixler. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Did they indicate to you that they were part and parcel
of the Communist conspiracy in this comitry ?

Mr. Pixler. There were implications to that. At least they in-
dicated to me that they were part and parcel of the Communist con-
spiracy in the War Labor Board.

Mr. Arens. Prior to the meeting which you have just recounted,
did you go through a process of other meetings in which you were
invited to participate ?

Mr. Pixler. Yes, over approximately a period from the time I first
knew these people.

Mr. Arens. Give us a brief sketch of the nature of those meetings
and the extent to which you participated in them.

Mr. Pixler. Most of these meetings fundamentally were for social
purposes. There was some discussion of economic problems and some
discussion of, let us say, the war and things of that nature, things in
terms of union activity. Those meetings took place at various places,
at Mr. Reno's house, at Mr. Bina's house.

4078 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. This was before you were actually solicited for mem-
bership in the Communist Party ; is that correct ?

Mr. PixLER. That is correct.

Mr. Arens. What was your response when you were solicited for
membership ?

Mr. PixLER. My response was to the effect that I certainly did not
understand communism basically well enough to become a member
of the Commmiist Party without knowing what I was becoming a
member of. In other words, I tried to play dumb,

Mr. Arens. Did you ever join the Communist Party ?

Mr. PiXLER. I never did.

Mr. Arens. While an employee of the National War Labor Board,
did you learn the names of the employees who were brought into the
Board by Philip Reno, the man who had solicited you into member-
ship in the Communist Party ?

Mr. PixLER. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Would you give the committee the benefit of your recol-
lection of the persons who were brought into the War Labor Board
as employees by Philip Reno ?

Mr. Pixler. There was Gerald Matchett. There was another econo-
mist by the name of LaVallee.

Mr. Arens. As you enumerate these people, I would like to have
this record clear. Was Matchett brought in as an employee of the
National War Labor Board by Philip Reno who solicited you into the
Communist Party ?

Mr. Pixler. Philip Reno told me that by his recommendation
LaVallee and Matchett were going to become employees of the Board.

Mr. Arens. You know, do you not, Mr. Pixler, that Mr. Matchett
has been identified befcrre this committee as a person known to be a
Communist ?

Mr. Pixler. No ; I do not know that.

Mr. Arens. Wlio was the next man brought into the War Labor
Board by Mr. Reno ?

Mr. Pixler. LaVallee.

Mr. Arens. Is that Ray LaVallee ?

Mr. Pixler. Ray LaVallee.

Mr. Arens. Do you know that [Lawrence] Raymond LaVallee has
been identified under oath by a witness before this committee as a
person who was a Communist ?

Mr. Pixler. I do not know that,

Mr. Arens. Do you have the name of another person who was
brought into the War Labor Board as an employee by Philip Reno ?

Mr. Pixler. There was Ralph Price.

Mr. Arens. Do you know that Ralph Price has been identified before
this committee as a member of the Communist Party ?

Mr, Pixler, No.

Mr. Arens. And that Price himself has since been cooperative with
this committee ?

Mr. Pixler. I didn't know that.

Mr. Arens. Do you have another name ?

Mr. Pixler. There was Martin Kurasch, head of the Legal Division
for a period of time.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4079

Mr. Arens. Do you know that Martin Kurasch has been identified
under oath before this committee as a person who was known to be
a Communist ?

Mr. PixLER. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. Was he brought into the "War Labor Board as an em-
ployee by Philip Reno ?

Mr. PixLER. That is my understanding- from him.

Mr. Arens. Do you have the name of another person who was
brought into the War Labor Board as an employee by Philip Reno?

Mr. PixLER. I couldn't specifically say, because following this period
where they became, let us say, convinced that I would not become a
member of their party, then I more or less lost my contact as to subse-
quent employees who were being hired. I have some personal observa-
tions on the matter, but as far as Mr. Reno seeing them, I can't say that.

Mr. Arens. Was Spencer also one of the employees brought into the
War Labor Board by Reno ?

Mr. PixLER. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Do you know that Dwight Spencer has been identified
as a Communist by a witness before this committee under oath?

Mr. PiXLEK. Except by press report.

]\Ir. Arens, Do you know of anyone who was brought into the War
Labor Board as an employee by Spencer as distinct from Reno?

Mr. PixLER. Spencer himself never told me that he brouglit anybody
in.

Mr. Arens. During the coui'se of your employment at the War
Labor Board, did you know Herbert Fuchs?

Mr. PixLER. Yes.

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
him?

Mr. PixLER. Only in terms of processing cases that had a bearing
upon disputes existing in the Board at that time.

Mr. Arens. Did you report to your superiors in the War Labor
Board the incidents which you have just recounted to us of your solici-
tation for membership in the Communist conspiracy ?

Mr, Pixler. I don't understand the question,

Mr. Arens, Did you report to your superiors in the War Labor
Board what you have just recounted to us?

Mr. Pixler. I did.

Mr. Arens. To whom did you report ?

Mr. Pixler. I first reported to Vernon H. Jensen, who was my boss
in the Wage Stabilization Division.

Mr, Arens, Did you report to any other person ?

Mr, Pixler, I subsequently reported to a connnittee of public mem-
bers of the Board consisting of Charles Graham, who was chairman,
Dean I^aphart, who was vice chairman, and Dean Edward King, who
is now with the University of Colorado Law School,

Mr. Arens. What transpired after you reported this incident to
your superiors you have just mentioned?

Mr. Pixler, I told in complete detail to the three public members
of the Board what transpired at this motel, the whole conversation
and activities as I knew them of at least Communists, that I knew were
Communists in the Board. Approximately a week or 2 weeks there-
after, the public member of the Board said from here on out we are

4080 coMMinsrisT activities in the rocky mountain area

tightening up rules on drinking coffee and things of that sort. It
was in my judgment a complete whitewash.

Mr. Arens. Was anyone fired as a result of this inquiry ?

Mr. PiXLER. Absolutely not. In fact, most of them were promoted.

Mr. Arens. Was anyone reprimanded as a result of this inquiry?

Mr, PixLER. Nobody but me,

Mr. Arens. While this group about whom you have been telling
us, were, we might say, courting you in these various social functions
before soliciting you for membership in the party, were they instru-
mental in obtaining any promotion or any increase in salary for
you ?

Mr. PixLER. Yes, they were. During the period of time when they
considered me as a prospect. In other words, I will illustrate the
point. I went to work as a P-1 labor economist, and within a month's
period of time they promoted me to a P-2 economist. Then during
this process of considering me a prospect they offered additional oppor-
tunities of getting ahead in the Federal service.

Mr. Arens. After you declined membership in the Communist
Party when solicited for such membership, what was the attitude to-
ward you of this group you have been describing ?

Mr. PixLER. They did everything in their power to try to run me
out, which they fundamentally succeeded in 2 years later.

Mr. Arens. During the course of your employment with the Na-
tional War Labor Board in the Denver area, did you acquire informa-
tion respecting the distribution of Communist literature among the
employees?

Mr. PixLER. Oh, yes.

Mr. Arens. Could you tell us about that in your own words ?

Mr. PiXLER. The War Labor Board was first located on the third
or fourth floor of the Midland Savings Building in the city of Den-
ver. Right immediately around the elevator there were two real
small offices. One was in back of the elevator and one was im-
mediately adjacent to it, with a doorway in between. Shortly after
this matter had been brought to my attention, I mean the membership
offer, JNIr. Spencer, who was sitting in the little office, used to have the
Daily Worker and other publications which the Communist Party
put out. I know they were distributed to various people in the Board,
and even given to me. Those things are in the files of the FBI. He
spent a considerable amount of his time trying — he, along with Mr.
Graham, spent a considerable amount of their time trying to raise
clothing for Russian war relief, which as I recall was the Anglo-
Russian War Relief Association, or something of that nature.

Mr. Arens. So the record may be clear, Mr. Pixler, you are appear-
ing today in response to a subpena which was served upon you; is
that correct ?

Mr. PixLER. That is correct.

Mr. Arens. We have no further questions at this time of this wit-
ness, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. Any questions, Mr. Frazier?

Mr. Frazier. No questions.

Mr. Velde. No questions.

The Chairman. Who was your immediate superior ?

Mr. Pixler. Vernon H. Jensen.

The Chairman. To whom was he answerable?

COMlVniNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4081

Mr. PixLER. He was answerable to the public members of the re-
gional War Labor I^oard.

The Chaikman. Thank you. That is all.

Mr. Akens. May 1 respectfully suggest that the witness not be
excused from his subpena as yet because we may have use for him later
on today.

The Chairman. The witness will stand aside for the moment and
we will call another witness.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Philip Reno, please.

Mr. Francis. My name is George Francis. I appear as attorney
and counsel for Mr. Reno. At the outset of this hearing may I enter
an objection to tlie use of the television camera?

The Chairman, There is no television camera on.

Will you raise your right hand, please. Do you swear the testimony
you are about to give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. Reno. I do.

TESTIMONY OF PHILIP EENO; ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
GEORGE FRANCIS

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.

Mr. Reno. My name is Philip Reno. I live in Taos, N. Mex. I
have a small farm there ; I am a farmer.

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today, Mr. Reno, in response to a
subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on
Un-American Activities?

Mr. Reno. That is correct.

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself for the record?

Mr. Francis. George Francis, admitted to practice in New York
and Colorado, offices in Denver, Colo.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Reno, where and when were you born?

Mr. Reno. In Idaho Falls, Idaho, June 22, 1913.

Mr. Arens. Will you give us a word, if you please, sir, about your
early schooling prior to the time that you became self-sufficient ?

Mr. Reno, I attended secondary and primary schools in Colorado
and various towns and the University of Colorado, from which I
graduated in 1934.

Mr. Arens, What degree did you receive in 1934?

Mr. Reno. Bachelor of arts.

Mr. Arens, Did that complete your formal education?

Mr. Reno. I took one postgraduate course, perhaps half a year, at
the university and thereafter only sporadically.

Mr. Arens. Tell us about your employment since completion of
your formal education.

Mr. Reno. I left the university to take employment with the Farm
Credit Administration in Washington, D. C.

Mr. Arens. And in what capacity and what year, please?

Mr. Reno. In 1935, and in the Personnel Division as a classification
assistant. Thereafter I was employed by the Social Security Board
in Washington.

Mr. Arens. How long were you with the Farm Credit Admin-
istration ?

4082 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Reno. Perhaps 2 years.

Mr. Arens. That would make it about 1937 ?

Mr. Reno. Yes, about.

Mr. Arens. Give us your next employment.

Mr. Reno. With the Social Security Board in Washington as an
economist and thereafter in the Social Security Board regional office
in Denver.

Mr. Arens. "Wlien were you transferred to the Denver area ?

Mr. Reno. In 1941.

Mr. Arens. Was that in the Denver office of the Social Security
Board?

Mr. Reno. That is right.

Mr. Arens. In what capacity did you serve here ?

Mr. Reno. As one of the several assistant regional representatives.

Mr. Arens. Kindly tell us how long you served in that capacity.

Mr. Reno. About a year and a half. Between a year and a half and
2 years. Then I transferred to the War Labor Board as an economist.

Mr. Arens. Wlien was that, please, sir ?

Mr. Reno. Late in 1942, perhaps December.

Mr. Arens. In 1942, National War Labor Board ?

Mr. Reno. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Kindly continue with the sequence of your employ-
ments.

Mr. Reno. I left the War Labor Board after about 2 or 3 months
employment and went to work for the shipyard workers union in
Baltimore.

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ?

Mr. Reno. I edited a newspaper.

I returned to Denver after about a year and worked in Denver for
the CIO Denver office and the Denver Political Action Committee of
the CIO. Then I was employed next by an independent liberal political
organization called the Social Action Council.

Mr. Arens. Could you give us the date of that please, sir?

Mr. Reno. During 1946. Then I spent a year on my father's ranch
in Idaho. Thereafter I was self-employed, primarily in the con-
struction industry, either building or doing remodeling or whatever
jobs were available.

Mr. Arens. What year are we in now, please, sir ?

Mr. Reno. We are about 1948, until the present time, until 2 years
ago, when I moved to Taos and bought a farm.

Mr. Arens. From 1948 until you bought your farm you were either
self-employed in construction work or on the ranch of your father ; is
that correct ?

Mr. Reno. That is right.

Mr. Arens. Were you ever employed by the Industrial Union of
Marine and Shipbuilding Workers of America in Baltimore?

Mr. Reno. Yes. That is the shipyard workers union to which I
referred.

Mr. Arens. Did you ever work for the International Union of
Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers ?

Mr. Reno. No.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Reno, I lay before you a photostatic copy of a docu-
ment entitled "Application for Federal Employment." There appears

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4083

a signature at the end of the document, and I ask you if that is your
signature ?

( The witness conferred with his counseL )

Mr. PvExo. I decline to answer that, sir, on the grounds that any
answer that I might give might tend to incriminate me.

Mr. Arexs. Do you honestly apprehend if you told this committee
of the Congress whether or not this is your signature appearing on
a document entitled "Application for Federal Employment" you
would be giving information which could be used against you in a
criminal proceeding ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I again decline to answer and invoke my privilege.

Mr. x\rexs. Mv. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness
be ordered and directed to answer this last pending question.

The Chairman. You are directed to answ^er the question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to afRrm or deny
the fact, that this is your signature on the application for Federal
emplovment.

Mr." Reno. I decline to answer that question again on the same
grounds.

Mr. Arens. Are you a Communist ?

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that question

(The witness conferred Avith his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I would be glad to answer that question if the com-
mittee will advise me as to whether or not it will waive any immunity
I wish to claim hereafter if I answer in the negative.

Mr. Arens. Are you now, as of this moment, a member of the
Communist Party ?

Mr. Reno. May I say again I would be glad to answer if the com-
mittee can assure me that such an answer will not constitute a waiver
of the immunity I wish to claim hereafter.

Mr. Arens. The committee will not undertake to bind itself on
anything which you may hereafter say, except pursuant to formal
consultation and vote by the committee itself. I again ask you. Are
you now a member of the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Reno, on form 57, an application for Federal em-
ployment in response to the question, "Do you advocate or have you
ever advocated, or are you now or have you ever been a member of
any organization that advocates the overthrow of the Government
of the United States by force and violence?", did you under oath
answer such a question "No" ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that question on the grounds previ-
ously stated.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that Mr. Pixler
be invited to come forward so that Mr. Reno may have the benefit of
looking him in the eye and having a live witness whom he could
observe. Mr. Pixler, would you kindly come forward. Just have a
seat, Mr. Pixler.

79079 — 56 — pt. 1 2

4084 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Reno, do you know this man here who is seated opposite you ?

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Akens. Mr. Reno, look at this man seated opposite you squarely
in the eye; look at him in the face, confront him, and tell this com-
mittee whether or not he was lying under oath when he said a few
moments ago that you solicited him for membership in the Communist
Party.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that question on the grounds previ-
ously stated, and I will not be compelled to be a witness against myself.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this com-
mittee whether or not Mr. Pixler was telling the truth when he said
you solicited him for membership in the Communist Party, you would
be supplying information which could be used against you in a
criminal proceeding ?

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. I respectuUy suggest, Mr. Chairman, the witness be
ordered and directed to answer that last principal question.

The Chairman. Will you read the question ?

(The reporter read from his notes as requested.)

Mr. Arens. The question is w4th reference to his apprehension.

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. AVill you repeat the question?

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this com-
mittee the truth as to whether or not Mr. Pixler was telling the truth
when he said under oath that you solicited him for membership in the
Communist Party, you would be supplying information which could
be used against you in a criminal proceeding?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Is the record clear, Mr. Chairman, that he has been
ordered and directed to answer that last principal question?

The Chairman. Yes ; he has been directed to answer.

Mr. Arens. That will be all for the moment, Mr. Pixler.

The Chairman. Before you go on, may I ask a question. Mr. Reno,
3'OU were employed by the National War Labor Board, were you not?

Mr. Reno. Yes.

The Chairman. "Wlio was your direct or immediate superior?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

The Chairman. You do not have to have legal advice to tell me a
simple little thing like that. Who was your direct superior?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. From statements previously given to this committee
I feel that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me and
therefore I refuse to answer.

The Chairman. Who were the public members of the Board?

(The Avitness conferred with his counsel.)

The Chairman. To the best of your recollection, of course.

Mr. Reno. I recall Charles Graham, of course, Glenn Donaldson, Ed
King. 1 was employed by the Board for only 2 or 3 months.

The Chairman. Was the Charles Graham you mentioned the for-
mer Chairman of the Board?

Mr. Reno. Yes.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4085

The CiiAiRiNrAN. Is lie one of the individuals you gave as a reference
on your application?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. 1 decline to answer that on the grounds that

The Chairman. The record speaks for itself. At this point I direct
that the document, Mr. Keno's application for Federal employment,
be made a part of these proceedings.

Mr. Arens. May 1 suggest that it be marked "Reno Exhibit No. 1,"
incorporated by reference in the record, and retained in the files of
the committee.

The Chairman. Yes.

Proceed, please.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Reno, do you know a man by the name of Herbert
Fuchs, F-u-c-h-s?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. This is the Herbert Fuchs who testified before this com-
mittee?

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.

Mr. Reno. In that case I decline to answer on the grounds stated.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fuchs testified under oath before this committee
in a public session in which he identified you as a person known by
him to a certainty to have been a member of the Communist Party.
Was he lying or was he telling the truth ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I decline on the grounds previously stated.

INIr. Arens. Do you know or have you known a person by the name
of Gerald J. Matchett ?

Mr. Reno. Has this Gerald Matchett been referred to in testimony
before this committee?

Mr, Arens. Can't you answer the simple question as to whether or
not you knew a man or know a man by the name of Gerald Matchett?

Mr. Reno. I am simply trying to identify him.

Mr. Arens. From the standpoint of pictures In your own mind
see if you can recall ever knowing a man by the name of Gerald
Matchett.

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer on the gi'ounds previously given.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend if you told this committee
the truth as to whether or not you have ever knowm a man by the name
of Gerald Matchett you would be supplying information wdiich could
be used against you in a criminal proceeding ?

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, the witness be
ordered and directed to answer that last principal question.

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. Will you repeat the question, please?

Mr. Arens. The last principal question is. Do you honestly appre-
hend if you told this committee the truth as to whether or not you
know or have known a person by the name of Gerald Matchett you
would be supplying information Avhich could be used against you in
a criminal proceeding?

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer.

Mr. Arens. The record is clear, is it not, Mr. Chairman, that he has
been ordered and directed to answer that question ?

4086 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

The Chairman. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Do you know, or have you known, a person by the
name of Raymond La Vallee ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Aeens. Do you know, or have you known, a person by the name
of Dwight Spencer ?

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Arens. Do you know, or have you known, a person by the name
of Ralph Price?

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that on grounds stated.

Mr. Arens. Were you in any way responsible for their employment
with the National War Labor Board in Denver ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that on the grounds already stated.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you actually were instrumental in the employment by
the National War Labor Board in Denver of Gerald Matchett, Ray-
mond La Vallee, Dwight Spencer, and Ralph Price,

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that question on the grounds previ-
ously stated.

Mr. Arens. Some several months ago, in September of last year,
were you interviewed by a member of the staff of the House Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities, a Mr. Wlieeler?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

The Chairman. Let's save some time. Some months ago you were
interviewed by an investigator of this committee by the name of
Wheeler. Proceed from there.

Mr. Arens. Did you tell Mr. Wlieeler at that time you were not a
member of the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that on the grounds already stated.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to confirm or deny
the fact, that you did deny membership in the Communist Party in the
interview with Mr. "Wlieeler, which was not under oath.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I would be glad to answer that question if the committee
will not consider a negative answer, an answer on my part as a waiver
of immunity.

Mr. Arens. All we want you to do is tell us the truth. Did you
deny to Mr. Wheeler that you were a member of the Communist
Party?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that on the grounds already given.

Mr. Arens. You recognize, do you not, Mr. Reno, that you are
currently under oath ?

Mr. Reno. Yes.

Mr. Arens. You recognize of course that you could be subjected to
the pains and penalties of perjury if you did commit a falsehood
before this committee?

Mr. Reno. Oh, yes.

Mr. Arens. Do you propose after you are released from your oath
to step out here in the hall or issue a press statement to the effect,
"Of course I am not a member of the Communist Party, but I am not

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4087

going to tell that witch-hunting House Committee on Un-American
Activities that I am not a member of the Commnist Party"?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I fail to see the relevance of your question.

Mr. Arens. Do you propose after your release from your oath
before this committee to tell the truth, to deny membership in the
Communist Party, as othei-s have done ?

Mr. Eexo. I refuse to answer that question.

Mr. Arens. Why ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Rexo. I refuse to answer the question.

The Chairman. You are directed to answer.

Mr. Reno. You ask me to answer what I will do in the future?

The Chairman. I ask you the present status of your mind as to what
you intend to do.

Mr. Reno. I have no intention at present in any respect.

Mr. Arens. When you were working for the Social Security Board
in Washington, D. C, were you a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that question on the grounds already
given.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the
time of your first employment by the Federal Government?

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that on the grounds already given,

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been expelled from the Communist
Party ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that question on the grounds already
given.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever resigned from the Communist Party ?

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that on the grounds stated.

Mr. Arens. There is testimony under oath before this committee,
Mr. Reno, that you attended section meetings of the Communist con-
spiracy in Washington. Is that testimony true or is it false?

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that on the grounds already stated.

Mr. Arens. While you were identified with the War l^abor Board or
during that approximate period in your career, did you introduce
into the War Labor Board any persons for employment, or were you
instrumental in the employment of any persons by the War Labor
Board in this Denver area ? ,

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. Because of previous testimony before this committee I
decline to answer that question on the grounds I have given.

Mr. Arens. Is that the previous testimony of the man who just
swore that you did do so ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. That is because of previous testimony given.

Mr. Arens. Is it his testimony, the previous witness' testimony to
which you are alluding?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Reno. Because of the testimony of the previous witness, yes.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that part of your responsibility in the Communist conspir-
acy was to introduce into the Federal Government persons known by
you to be members of that conspiracy ?

4088 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKT MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Reno. I decline to answer that on the grounds given.

Mr. Arens. I have no further questions at this time of this witness,
Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. The witness is excused.

Mr. Francis. Mr. Chairman, is the witness excused?

The Chairman. Yes.

The committee will be in recess for 5 minutes.

(Brief recess.)

The Chairman. You may call your next witness.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Dwight Spencer, please.

Kindly remain standing while the chairman administers the oath
to .you.

The Chairman. Raise your right hand, please, Mr. Spencer. Do
you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. Spencer. I do.

TESTIMONY OF DWIGHT SPENCER; ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,

GEORGE FRANCIS

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.

]Mr. Spencer. My name is Dwight Spencer. I have a small farm
on the outskirts of Albuquerque, N. Mex.

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today, Mr. Spencer, in response
to a subpena which was served upon you by the Ilouse Committee on
Un-American Activities?

Mr. Spkncer. Right, sir.

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel?

Mr. Spencer. Yes.

Mr, Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself for the record.

Mr. Francis. George Francis, admitted to practice in the States
of New York and Colorado, offices in Denver, Colo.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Spencer, give us, if you please, sir, a thumbnail
sketch of your early life prior to the time that you became self-
sufficient. Where were you born, your early education, and so forth.

Mr. Spencer. I Avas born in Denver, Colo., in 1895, June 8. High
schools in New England and Colorado. Graduated from Brown Uni-
versity, with a bachelor of arts degree.

Mr. Arens. MHien did you graduate from BroAvn University?

Mr. Spencer. 1919.

Mr. Arens. Did that complete your formal education?

Mr. Spencer. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly trace in thumbnail form the chro-
nology of various employments you have had since the completion of
your formal education?

Mr. Spencer. 15 years of teaching.

Mr. Arens. Where, please?

Mr. Spencer. In Colorado, 3 years at ranching.

Mr. Arens. I think we could keep our record straighter this way.
Did you begin teaching immediately after the completion of your
formal education at Brown?

Mr. Spencer. Right.

commijNist activities in the rocky mountain area 4089

Mr. Arens. That would be from 1920, then, for the following 15
years.

Mr. Spencer. Eight.

Mr. Arens. Would that bring us up through about 1935 that you
were engaged in teaching ?

Mr. Spencer. Right.

Mr. Arens. Give us, please, sir, the names of the institutions where
you were engaged as a teacher.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. 13 years in Cheyenne Mountain High School on the
outskirts of Colorado Springs, 2 years in Winnetka, 111., at the North
Shore Country Day School ; which completed my years as a school-
teacher.

Mr. Arens. I believe the committee may have a little difficulty un-
derstanding you, Mr. Spencer. Would it be convenient for you to
raise your voice a little, please ?

Continue the chronology of your employment, if you please, sir.

Mr. Spencer. Up until 1940, ranching.

Mr. Arens. Where?

Mr. Spencer. In Colorado, east of Colorado Springs.

Mr. Arens. Self-employed?

Mr. Spencer. Right. Six years Federal employment.

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly enumerate your Federal employment,
beginning, I take it, in 1940. Is that correct ?

Mr. Spencer. Right. National Youth Administration.

Mr. Arens. Where and in what capacity?

Mr. Spencer. Denver. Youth personnel director for the State of
Colorado until the early part of 1942, then the National War Labor
Board until 1945, then a few months

Mr. Arens. Was that National War Labor Board employment here
in Denver?

Mr. Spencer. Right, sir.

Then a few months with the Wage Stabilization Board.

Mr. Arens. 'Wliere was that employment?

Mr. Spencer. Here in Denver. That was all.

The Chairman. What had you been doing just before you went
with the National Youth Administration?

Mr. Spencer. Ranching, sir.

The Chairman. How did that qualify you for a top position in the
NYA? What does ranching have to do with the National Youth
Administration?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. My previous school work, sir, I assume.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Spencer, are you a Communist?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. If I answer that question in the negative would the
committee consider that a waiver of my rights under the fifth amend-
ment?

The Chairman. We will cross that bridge when we come to it, if
we come to it.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of
my rights under the fifth amendment.

4090 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend, that if you told this com-
mittee whether or not at this instant you are a Communist, you would
be supplying information which might be used against you in a crimi-
nal proceeding?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline, sir, on the gi'ound previously given.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, the witness be
ordered and directed to answer that question.

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question, Mr.
Spencer.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously given.

The Chairman. You have been identified by a number of persons
as having been a member of the Communist conspiracy. Will you
name the people, Mr. Arens, who have, from time to time, identified
Mr. Spencer ?

Mr. Arens. Yes. Mr. Herbert Fuchs, Mr. Spencer, testified under
oath before this committee that he knew you as a member of the Com-
munist Party. Was Herbert Fuchs lyin^ or was he telling the truth ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the grounds previously given.

The Chairman. I suppose in some quarters Mr. Fuchs would be
described as a faceless informer.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully su":gest, Mr. Chairman, that we have a
witness today who might stand up. Mr. Pixler, would you kindly
stand up ?

The Chairman. Mr. Spencer, do you know this gentleman stand-
ing here ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

The Chairman. It is just a question of fact.

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the grounds previously given.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Pixler testified under oath this morning and sub-
jected himself to the pains and penalties of perjury. He said in effect
that you had solicited him for membership in the Communist Party.
Now look that man in the face and tell us whether or not he was tell-
ing the truth or whether he was lying.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the grounds previously given.

Mr. Arens. Were you a Communist when you were teaching from
1919 to 1934?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline on the grounds previously given.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Arens. Mr. Spencer, I lay before you a photostatic copy of a
brief news item which I should like to read for the information of the
committee. It is a news item from the Colorado Springs Gazette
Telegraph. I assume that is the name of the publication. December
18, 1955, Albuquerque, N. Mex.

A retired public relations man identified as a Communist by a former Denver
War Labor Board official said Friday that the charge is beyond reason. The
former Board official, Herbert Fuchs, named 23 men, including himself and the
public relations man, Dwight Spencer, as known Communists in either the
Board or the National Labor Relations Board. Spencer said he knew Fuchs as
an official of the Denver WLB where Spencer had served during Communist —

COMJMUNIbT ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4091

there is a typographical error here —

an official of the Denver WLB where Syeucer had served during the war. But
as far as being a Commuist, Spencer replied, "All I can say is that the charge
is plain silly.

Look at the article, Mr. Spencer, and tell us whether or not that
article is a true and accurate quotation of yourself.

(Witness conferred \Yith his counsel.)

Mr, Spencer. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that
I cannot be compelled to be a witness against myself.

Mr. .Vrexs. Do you honestly apprehend, that if you told this com-
mittee the truth as'to whether "or not this is an accurate representation
of your statements appearing in the Colorado Springs Gazette, you
would be supplying information which could be used against you in a
criminal proceeding ?

( The witness conferred with his counsel. )

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the same grounds previously
given.

Mr. Arens. Was Fuchs' testimony about you just plain silly?

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the grounds previously given.

Mr. Arens. You weren't under oath, were you, ]\Ir. Spencer, when
vou told the newspaper reporter that Fuchs' testimony was just plain
silly?

( The witness conferred with his counsel. )

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the grounds previously given.

Mr. Arens. Have you denied that you were a member of the Com-
numist Party to any'person for presentation to the public in a news-
paper ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the gi'ounds previously given,
and I don't intend to waive my rights under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. You recognize, do you not, that you are currently under
oath and subject to the pains and penalties of perjury if you lie to
this committee? You recognize that fact, do you not, Mr. Spencer?

Mr. Spencer. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Do you intend after your release from this committee
to step outside or to go to some other newspaper reporter and say,
"Of course I was never a member of the Communist Party, but I
wasn't going to tell that witchhunting House Un-American Activities
Committee that I was not a member of the Communist Party"?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I don't see how I can answer a speculative question,
sir.

Mr. Arens. "V^Hiat is your present intention ? What is the state of
your mind as of the moment ?

Mr. Spencer. I have no intentions at present.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of an organization dedi-
cated to the destruction of the Constitution of the United States ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. Will you repeat that question ?

Mr. Arens. Have j^ou ever been a member of an organization dedi-
cated to the destruction of the Constitution of the United States and
the forceful overthrow of the Government of the United States?

Mr. Spencer. 1 decline to answer on the grounds i)revionsly given.

Mr. Arens. When you were engaged in your teaching career be-

4092 COMMXTNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

tween 1920 and 1935, were you then a member of the Communist
conspiracy ?

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Did you teach a little Marxism or a little communism
along with the history you taught?

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer that on the same grounds.

Mr, Arens. Have you ever been identified with a middle school,
what is called a middle school ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. Please repeat the question.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, that observation by the witness is just
a repetition of the words of counsel. I think counsel should be ad-
vised that his function here is only to advise his client on his con-
stitutional rights and not to tell him what to say.

Have you ever been identified with the middle school ?

Mr. Spencer. Right.

Mr. Arens. What was the middle school ?

Mr, Spencer. It corresponded to a junior high school.

Mr. Arens. Where was it located?

Mr. Spencer. As I previously stated, at the North Shore Country
Day School, in Winnetka, 111.

Mr. Arens. Did you at one time take a tour to visit 87 educational
institutions widely scattered over the United States?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. Now that you bring it to my attention, sir, I did.

Mr. Arens. Was that tour you made to the 87 educational institu-
tions, pursuant to a directive of one of the comrades in the Communist
conspiracy ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I was sent by the Julius Rosenwald Fund.

Mr. Arens. Were you a Communist when you were on that tour?

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the grounds previously given,
sir.

Mr. Arens. Were your activities on that tour pursuant to directives
from the Communist conspiracy?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I was sent by the Julius Rosenwald Foundation.

Mr. Arens. Can't you answer the question as to whether or not
you were under the discipline of the Communist conspiracy irrespec-
tive of who sent you or from where you received the funds to go ?

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the grounds previously given.

Mr. Arens. Do you mean to tell this committee that you honestly
apprehend, that if you would state truthfully whether or not in this
nationwide tour of 87 educational institutions, your activities were
under the direction of the Communist conspiracy, you would be sup-
plying information which could be used against you in a criminal
proceeding ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the grounds previously given.

Mr. Arens. I repectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness
be ordered and directed to answer that question.

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.

]Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the same grounds, sir.

corijmtinist activities in the rocky mountain area 4093

Mr. Arens. How did you get your job with the National War Labor
Board?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the grounds previously given.

Mr. Arens. Was your job procured for you by a person known by
you at that time to have been a member of tlie Comnninist Party?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the same grounds.

]VIr. Arens. It was procured for you or at least expedited in pro-
curement by Philip Keno ; was it not ?

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the same gi-ounds.

Mr. Arens. Who is Philip Reno ?

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Do you mean to tell this committee, if you told us the
truth as to whether or not you know who Philip Reno is, you would
be supplying information which could be used against you in a crim-
inal proceeding?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer, sir, on the same grounds.

Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, to what job are you referring?

Mr. Arens. His job, if you please, sir, with the National War Labor
Board in Denver.

What post did you occupy in the War Labor Board in Denver ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I began as an economist and then transferred to the
Disputes Division as a disputes officer.

Mr. Arens. Is that the only description you could give of the various
positions you had with the War Labor Board in Denver?

Mr. Spencer. I finished as Director of the Disputes Division.

Mr. Arens. How many people were under your supervision when
you were Director of the Disputes Division ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. It was about 3 or 4.

Mr. Arens. During the course of your employment with the War
Labor Board, did you know a person by the name of John W. Porter?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. Has that John Porter been named before this com-
mittee, sir ?

Mr. Arens. Just tell us whether or not you know a person by the
name of John W. Porter.

jNIr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Margaret
Bennett Porter ?

JMr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the grounds previously given.

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Martin Kurasch ?

Mr. Spencer. The same answer.

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Lillian Kurasch ?

Mr. Spencer. The same answer.

Mr. Arens. Did you Imow a person by the name of Edward
Scheunemann ?

Mr. Spencer. The same answer.

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Cecelia Sche-
unemann ?

Mr. Spencer. The same answer.

4094 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Aeens. Did you know a person by the name of Gerald J.
Matchett?

Mr. Spencer. The same answer.

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Margaret
Matchett?

Mr. Spencer. The same answer.

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Lawrence Ray-
mond LaVallee ?

Mr. Spencer. The same answer.

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Mary Spencer?

Mary Spencer is your wife, is she not ?

The Chairman. You certainly don't need any legal advice to an-
swer that question.

Mr. Spencer. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Don Plumb ?

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Arlyne Plumb ?

Mr. Spencer. The same answer.

Mr. Arens. And Herbert Fuchs?

Mr. Spencer. The same answer.

Mr. Arens. Were there any pei-sons whom you knew at the War
Labor Board, whose names you can recount to this committee without
giving information which, in your judgment, could be used against
you in a criminal proceeding ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer, sir, on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, he be ordered and
directed to answer that question.

The Chairman. You were at the head of the Disputes Division,
were you not ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. In the last few weeks, sir.

The Chairman, l-Nlio was under your supervision in the Disputes
Division ?

(The witness conferred wath his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer, sir, on the grounds previously
given.

The Chairman. What crime do you think you could be charged
w^ith if you were to give us the names of the people who were serving
directly under 3^011 and whose names are a matter of public record?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. 1 feel, sir, that this line of questioning would tend
to make me a witness against myself, and therefore I exercise my rights
under the fifth amendment.

The Chairman. I think it is the duty of the Chair to advise you
that you are assuming the responsibility yourself of not answering a
question wliich in no possible way could violate any of your constitu-
tional rights ; and I do so advise you.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Spencer, I lay before you a photostatic copy of a
document entitled '"Application for Federal Emploj^ment," with a
signatui-e of the ap])licaiit at the bottom of it as Dwight Spencer. I
ask you if you can identify that signature.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

COMMUNIST ACTRITIES IK THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4095

Mr. Arens. Just look at that signature, and tell us whether or not
that is vour signature. ■, • ^

Mr. Spexcer. I decline to answer, sir, on the grounds previously
given.

Mr. Aeexs. Look at question 26 on this document. It reads as

follows :

Do you advocate oi- have you ever advocated or are you now or have you ever
been a member of any organization which advocates the overthrow of the Gov-
ernment of the United States by force or violence?

Under the column "No'' there is an ''X" and the document is dated
in July of 1946.

Did you cause that "X" to be placed on this document, after ques-
tion 26 in the "No" column in answer to question 26 ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. The same answer, sir.

Mr. Arens. Did you lie to the Federal Government when you were
applying for employment in 1946 with reference to whether or not you
had been a member of a conspiracy desio;ned to overthrow the very
Government in which you were then seeking employment ?

Mr. Spencer. The same answer, sir.

iSIr. Arens. Were you in 1946, at the time you were seeking empioy-
ment in the Federal Government, a member of the Communist con-
spiracy ?

Mr. Spencer. The same answer, sir.

Mr. Arens. When you were with the Wage Stabilization Board
in 1946, what was your title, or position ?

Mr. Spencer. I can't remember exactly, sir.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I can't remember exactly, sir, what that was.

Mr. Ari'^ns. Did you occupy a post fairly close to the chairman ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. Yes, sir.

Mr. AijENS. Who was the chairman?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. Glenn Donaldson, sir.

Mr. Arens. Were yon, in. the event of his absence, acting chairman?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. That was, as I recall, sir, a somewhat confusing situ-
ation because we were closing the agency. I never signed any docu-
ments as acting chairman because I did not have that authority. I
was called an acting chairman with no change in status as far as income
or check was concerned.

Mr. Arens. You were chief of the Wage Stabilization Division,
were you not ?

Mr. Spencer. I was — certainly I was at the head of that Division, as
I recall, working directly

Mr. Arens. How many people were under your direction or super-
vision ?

Mr. Spencer. Again, 2 or 3.

Mr. Arens. Did you have the responsibility and authority to direct
the activities of the staff members in processing all wage cases in this
Ninth Region?

Mr. Spencer. The Division was so small, sir, that that was in effect
handled directly by the chairman.

4096 COMIMIINIST ACTIVITIES IX THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

The Chairman. Who were the three employees in that Division ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I can't recall a single one. It is too many years ago.

The Chairman. To the best of your recollection, who were they ?

Mr. Spencer. I cannot recall a single name, sir.

Mr. Arens. Were any of them known bj^ j^ou to be members of the
Communist conspiracy ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I can hardly answer that, sir. 1 can't even remember
their names.

Mr. Arens. Do you recall the physical appearance of any of the
employees who were under your supervision at the Wage Stabiliza-
tion Board ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. One woman, two men, as I would guess, sir, to the
best of my recollection.

Mr. Arens. Do you have any recollection as to either a first name
or a last name of any of the three ?

Mr. Spencer. None at all.

Mr. Arens. Did you belong to any organization of which they were
members ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. Not to my knowledge, sir.

Mr. Arens. Were you instrumental in the employment of any of
the three ?

Mr. Spencer. In no way.

Mr. Arens. Was your employment in the Wage Stabilization Board
procured or facilitated for you by any person known by you to have
been a member of the Communist conspiracy ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. Not to my knowledge in any way.

Mr. Arens. Was your employment with the National War Labor
Board procured or facilitated for you by any person known by you to
have been a member of the Communist conspiracy ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. Because of testimony previously given I decline to
answer that question on the grounds of my rights under the fifth
amendment.

Mr. Arens. Was that previously given testimony to which you al-
lude true or was it false ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. Same answer, sir.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever resigned from the Communist Party ?

Mr. Spencer. The same answer.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been ejected from the Communist Party?

Mr. Spencer. The same answer, sir.

Mr. Arens. Are you presently under Communist discipline?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. The same answer, sir.

Mr. Arens. A while ago we enumerated a list of individuals with
reference to each of whom you invoked your privilege under the fifth
amendment not to give information which could be used against jou
in a criminal proceeding. That is correct ; is it not ? That transpired
on the record?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4097

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Arens. Reno, Porter, Kurasch, Scheimemann, Matchett.

Mr, Spexcer. I am not sure, sir, of j^our question.

Mr. Arens. "We will start over again. I put it to you as a fact, and
ask you to affirm or deny the fact that while you were with the Na-
tional War Labor Board in Denver you were a member of a cell con-
sisting of approximately two dozen people who were known by you to
be members of the Communist cons])iracy.

Mr. Spexcer. I decline, sir, for reasons previously given, to answer.

Mr. Arens. "We have no further questions at this time, Mr. Chair-
man.

The Chairmax. Any questions?

Mr. Velde. I have just 1 or 2 questions, Mr. Chairman.

"V^lien was it that you were with the National Youth Adminis-
tration ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spexcer. 1940 to early 1942.

Mr. Velde. Where were you employed ?

Mr. Spexcer. Here in Denver, sir.

Mr. Velde. What were your duties ?

(The witness conferred with his comisel.)

]\Ir. Spexcer. As director of youth personnel, I had supervision of
the living conditions and working conditions of young people trying
to get training so that they would be eligible for employment.

Mr. Velde. In the course of the performance of your duties, did
you ever teach any subject matter to the j^outh mider your jurisdiction ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spexcer. Did I do any teaching, sir ? Was that your question ?

Mr. Velde. Yes.

Mr. Spexcer. No, sir.

Mr. Velde. In the course of your conversations with the youth under
your direction, did j'ou ever talk to them about any policy or form of
government other than the American form of government ?

Mr. Spex'cer. Only their immediate conditions of employment and
their immediate living conditions, sir.

Mr. Velde. At that time were you a member of the Communist
Party?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Spencer. I decline to answer, sir, under the reasons previously
given.

Mr. Velde. That is all.

The Chairman. There are no further questions, and the witness is
excused from further attendance.

Call your next witness, Mr. Arens.

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Donald Plumb, if you please, sir.

Mr. Horxbeix'^. Mr. Chairman, we would like to invoke the protec-
tion of rule 13 (b) of the committee's rules with reference to the tele-
vision camera present.

Mr. Arexs. Please remain standing.

Mr. HoRXBEix. Just a moment. We would like the chairman to

The Chairman'. I have already said that the rule will be observed.

Mr. HoRXBEix. That means that there will be no television film run.

Mr. Arexs. Please remain standing, Mr. Plumb, while the chair-
man administers an oath to you.

4098 COMAIUXIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

The Chairman. Raise your right hand, please. Do you swear the
testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Dr. Plumb. I do.

TESTIMONY OF DE. DONALD D. PLUMB; ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, PHILIP HOENBEIN

The Chairman. Sit down, Mr. Plumb.

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.

Dr. Plumb. My name is Donald D. Plumb. I live at 4301 Wads-
worth, Wheat Ridge, Colo. I am a physician.

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today in response to a subpena which
was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American Activi-
ties?

Dr. Plumb. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ?

Dr. Plumb. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself.

Mr. HoRNBEiN. Yes. Philip Hornbein, Jr., 620 Symes Building,
Denver.

Mr. Arens. Kindly give us a brief sketch of your background. Doc-
tor. Where and when were you born ?

Dr. Plumb. I was born in Yankton, S. Dak., December 26, 1916.

Mr. Arens. And your education, please, sir-

Dr. Plumb. My grade school and high school I attended in Mon-
tana, Do you want my higher education*?

Mr. Arens. If you please, sir.

Dr. Plumb. I attended the University of Montana and graduated
with a bachelor of science degree in pharmacy in 1939.

Mr. Arens. Continue, please.

Dr. Plumb. I attended the University of Colorado.

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly raise your voice a little. I am afraid
the committee may have difficult}^ hearing you.

Dr. Plumb. I attended the University of Colorado School of Medi-
cine from 1944 until 1949.

Mr. Arens. Did that complete your formal education ?

Dr. Plumb. I took my internship in Boston, Mass.

Mr. Arens. When did you complete your internship in Boston ?

Dr. Plumb. July of 1950.

Mr. Arens. Pick up there if you please, sir, and give us a brief
chronological account of the employments which you have had since
you completed internship at Boston.

Dr. Plujvib. I have been employed as a private physician in the
general practice of medicine since 1950.

Mr. Arens, Were you at any time employed by the National War
Labor Board?

Dr. Plumb. I was not.

Mr. Arens. The National Labor Relations Board ?

Dr. Plumb. I was not.

Ml-. Arens. Have you ever been employed by the Federal Govern-
ment?

Dr. Plumb. I have.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4099

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ?

Dr. Pluimb. As an intern in the United States Public Health Service
in 1949 and 1950.

Mr. Arens. Was that the employment in Boston you mentioned a
moment ago ?

Dr. Plumb. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Were you ever employed by the Federal Security
Agency ?

Dr. Plumb. Public Health Service is a subdivision of the Federal
Securit}^ Agency.

Mr. Arens. Did you ever engage in employment under the National
Institute of Health in Denver?

Dr. Plumb. Yes, I did, sir.

Mr. Arens. Is that under the Federal Security Agency?

Dr. Plumb. I am not sure.

Mr. Arens. It was then; was it not?

Dr. Plu3ib. I am not sure.

Mr. Arens. Doctor, are you a Communist ?

Dr. Plumb. I am not.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a Communist? *

Dr. Plumb. I never have been.

Mr. Arens. Are you aware of tlie testimony of Herbert Fuchs?

Dr. Plu]mb. I have read some of the testimony of Herbert Fuchs.

Mr. Arens. Have you read the testimony of Herbert Fuchs in Chi-
cago on December 13, 1955, in which Fuchs identified you as a person
known by him to have been a member of the Communist Party ?

Dr. Plumb. I am aware of that testimony.

JNIr. Arens. Was he telling the truth or was he in error?

Dr. Plumb. I believe he was in error.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been in any sessions or meetings in which
Herbert Fuclis was a member ?

Dr. Plumb. I have not.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Herbert Fuchs ?

Dr. Plumb. I did know him.

Mr. Arens. Wliat was the nature of your acquaintanceship with,
him?

Mr. Frazier. Speak a little louder. We can't hear you up here.

Dr. Plu]vib. Counsel is pushing me, sir.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

The Chairman. There is no hurry at all. Take your time.

Dr. Plumb. Would you repeat your question ?

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
Herbert Fuchs?

Dr. Plumb. I visited with Mr. Fuchs on several social occasions.

Mr. Arens. When.

Dr. Plumb. In the spring of 1945, 1 believe.

Mr. Arens. Where?

Dr. Plumb. At his home.

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of the visits?

Dr. Plumb. We were invited there for dinner.

Mr. Arens. How did you make acquaintanceship with Mr. Fuchs?

Dr. Plu3Ib. I do not know.

Mr. Arens. Did you meet him in the course of your employment?

79079—56 — pt. 1 3

4100 COMMIWIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Dr. Plumb. I was a medical student as of that time, so I did not
meet him in the course of my employment.

Mr. Akens. Do you have any recollection as to where you may
have met him ?

Dr. Plumb. I do not.

Mr. Arens. Plow long did you know him?

Dr. Plumb. I don't recall when he left Denver.

Mr. Arens. When did you first meet him?

Dr. Plumb. I do not know.

Ml'. Arens. Was it some time between 1943 and 1945 ?

Dr. Plumb. It was not.

Mr. Arens. Was it later than 1945 ?

Dr. Plumb. The date I object to is 1943.

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon.

Dr. Plumb. The date, 1943, is the date that I object to. We came
to Denver from Seattle, Wash., in August of 1943. I do not have any
recollection of meeting Mr. Fuchs in 1943 or, for that matter, in 1944.

Mr. Arens. Did you meet him in 1945 ?

Dr. Plujmb. I presume that I did.

Mr. Arens. How long did you know him ?

Dr. Plumb. I would say that I knew him for about 6 or 7 months.

Mr. Arens. Did you know him well enough to call him by his first
name ?

Dr. Plumb. I am not sure.

Mr. Arens. Did he call you by your first name ?

Dr. Plumb. I do not know.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Dwight Spencer ?

Dr. Plumb. I did.

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
him?

Dr. Plumb. My acquaintanceship with Mr. Spencer in 1943 and
1944 and 1945 was very vague, so 1 cannot answer the nature of my
acquaintanceship with Mr. Spencer.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been in his home ?

Dr. Plumb. I have.

Mr. Arens. Has he ever been in your home ?

Dr. Plumb. I do not recall him ever being in my home.

Mr. Arens. What occasioned your presence in his home?

Dr. Plumb. I think my wife and I were invited.

Mr. Arens. Was it an invitation for a social gathering, a dinnei
or what was the nature of the get-together ?

Dr. Plumb. I do not recall.

Mr. Arens. Did you have dinner at his home ?

Dr. Plumb. I do not recall ever eating dinner at his home.

Mr. Arens. There is nothing wrong with your recollection, your
memory, is there? It has been only 10 years ago. How long did you
know Mr. Spencer?

Dr. Plumb. I have loiown Mr. Spencer — I would say I was ac-
quainted with Mr. Spencer in 1944 and became better acquainted with
him in 1948-49, and then better acquainted since I returned to Denver
in 1950.

Mr. Arens. Plow did you make his acquaintanceship ?
Dr. Plumb. I do not recall.

Mr. Arens. Did you know a Dr. Ralph Price?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4101

Dr. Pluiib. I did not know Kalph Price as a doctor.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Kalph Price?

Dr. Plumb. I have been acquainted with Ralph Price.

Mr. Arens. "What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
him ?

Dr. Plumb. I met him as a fellow employee of my wife in the War
Labor Board.

Mr. Arens. I inform you now that Dr. Ralph Price has sworn
before this committee that he likewise knew you as a member of the
Communist Party. Was he in error or was he telling the truth?

Dr. Plumb. I believe he was in error.

]\Ir. Arens. Have you ever been in any meetings with Dr. Price or
Ralph Price?

Dr. Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. "What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
him?

Dr. Plumb. I believe that they were entirely social gatherings, sir.

Mr. Arens. "Wliere were these social gatherings ?

Dr. Plumb. I do not know.

jMr. Arens. Did you know or have you known a person by the name
of Glenn Earl?

Dr. Plumb. I have known Glenn Earl.

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Mary Spencer ?

Dr. Plumb. I certainly do.

Mr. Arens. She is the wife of Dwight Spencer, is she not?

Dr. Plumb. She is.

Mr. Arens. Did you know or have you known a person by the name
of Margaret Hagler, H-a-g-1-e-r?

Dr. Plumb. I do not recall a person by the name of Margaret
Hagler.

Mr. Arens. Did you know or have you known a person by the
name of Don Valdez?

Dr. Plumb. I do not Icnow a person by the name of Don Valdez.

Mr. Arens. Did you know or have you known a person by the name
of Philip Reno?

Dr. Plumb. I have an acquaintanceship with Philip Reno.

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
him?

Dr. Plu]vib. In 1944, during the political campaign, I did some pre-
cinct work, and I had occasion to be a watcher. I had some difficulty
as a watcher with one of the recorders. I called the headquarters
and the person they sent out to help that situation was Mr. Reno.

The Chairman. What headquarters was that ?

Dr. Plumb. That, sir, was the Democratic County headquarters in
Denver.

Mr. Arens. Did you know John W. Porter ?

Dr. PiuMB. I have never met John W. Porter.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Martin Kurasch?

Dr. Plumb. I knew Martin Kurasch.

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
him?

Dr. Plumb. I had brief social contacts with Martin Kurasch.

Mr. Arens. What do you mean by brief social contact. Doctor?

Dr. Plumb. That is precisely what I mean.

4102 COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. Were you in his lioiise ?

Dr. Plumb. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. How many times were you in the home of Martin
Kurasch ?

Dr. Plumb. I cannot answer that question.

Mr. Arens. Were you in his home as many as a dozen times ?

Dr. Plumb. I think not.

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time did you know Martin Ku-
rasch ?

Dr. Plumb. I do not know over what period of time T knew Martin
Kurasch, but I would presume it was in 1944 and 1945.

Mr. Arens. Do you know that he has been identified as a member
of the Communist conspiracy ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Dr. Plumb. I do not.

Mr. Arens. You knew Glenn Earl ?

Dr. Plumb. I did.

Mr. Arens. Did you know that he has been identified as a member
of the Communist Party ?

Dr. Plumb. I do not.

Mr. Arens. "^^lat was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
him?

Dr. Plu^hb. 1 became acquainted with him in 1944 during the politi-
cal campaign. He was an individual who instructed me in doing
block precinct work.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Margaret Matchett ?

Dr. Plumb. I did not — I met Margaret Matchett.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Gerald J. Matchett?

Dr. Plumb. Relative to what time, sir ?

Mr. Arens. When you were here in the Denver area in this period
of employment

Dr. Plumb. Are you referring to 1943, 1944, 1945?

Mr. Arens, Did you know him at any time ?

Dr. Pluimb. Yes.

Mr. Arens. When did you know him ?

Dr. Plumb. I have met Mr. Matchett I think in 1948 and I saw him
again in 1950.

Mr. Arens. AYliat was the occasion for your seeing him?

Dr. Plumb. I believe it was a chance social contact.

Mr. Arens. I understood you to say a while ago that on a couple
of occasions you have been engaged in some kind of political activity
here ?

Dr. Plujvib. That is true, sir.

Mr. Arens. Were you ever engaged in any political activity in which
Matchett and Reno were coworkers with you ?

Dr. Pluiub. I would like to answer those questions separately, sir.

Mr. Arens. All right, sir.

Dr. Plumb. As I say, I became acquainted with Mr. Reno in 1944
when I was working for the Democratic Party as a precinct worker,
and that is the occasion that I had political contact with Mr. Reno.

With regard to Mr. Matchett, the answer is "No."

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Raymond La-
Vallee?

Dr. Plumb. I have never met Raymond LaVallee.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4103

]\Ii*. Arexs. Did you know a person by the name of Robert C.
Williams?

Dr. Plumb. I knew Kobert C. Williams.

Mr. Akens. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
him?

Dr. Plumb, I chanced to meet him on social occasions.

Mr. Arens. How were you introduced to him? Do jow have a
recollection of that?

Dr. Plumb. No, sir ; I do not.

Mr. Arens. Do you have a recollection of who might have intro-
duced you to any of the individuals just mentioned, all of whom have
been identified as members of the Communist conspiracy ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Dr. Plumb. I do not have any recollection, sir.

Mr. Arexs. Have you ever been solicited for membership in the
Communist Party?

Dr. Plumb. I never have been, sir.

Mr. Arexs. Have any of these individuals whose names we have
been discussing here, such as Keno and Williams and Matchett, ever
been known by you to have been members of the Communist Party?

Dr. Pluivib. No.

Mr. Arens. Did you ever engage with them in any study gi'oups?

Dr. Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. Any discussion groups of communism ?

Dr. Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. Did Price have any hatred toward you that you ever
knew of?

Dr. Plumb. Not that I am aware of, sir.

Mr. Arens. Did Fuchs ever have any hatred toward you that you
knew about?

Dr. Plu:mb. Not that I am aware of.

Mr. Arens. Doctor, both of these men have testified under oath
before this committee enumerating people known by them to have
been membei*s of the Communist cells in the Denver area. Both of
these men enumerated you as a member of those cells. Can you in any
way account for that testimony ?

Dr. Plumb. I cannot account for that testimony, sir.

Dr. Arens. Have you ever been in any meetings with either of
those men?

Dr. Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. In the course of your associations with this gToup who
have been identified under oath as members of the Communist Party,
did any question come to your mind as to wJiether or not they might be
engaged in some conspiratorial work^

Dr. Plumb. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. Did you at any time feel that j^ou were being used by
members of the Communist Party ?

Dr. Plumb. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. Or by people with ulterior motives ?

Dr. Plumb. No, sir.

Mr. Arens, Did you ever have any doubt in 3'our own mind as to
the loyalty of these persons we have been discussing, and wdio have
been identified as members of the Communist Party ?

Dr. Plumb. No, sir.

4104 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. Did they ever give any evidence to you of activity which
caused you to doubt their sincerity or loyalty ?

Dr. Plumb. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. Did you ever attend what might be called meetings witH
any of them, as distinct from just a social get-together?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. HoRNBEiN. Mr. Counsel, will you break that question down as
to the particular individual and ask him with reference to each indi-
vidual separately ?

Mr. Arens. Do you recall any meetings with reference to any of
them?

Dr. Plumb. Would you kindly, sir, ask me specifically ?

Mr. Arens, Do you recall during your employment here in the
Denver area by the Federal Government attending what might be
regarded as meetings as distinct from social gatherings ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Dr. Plumb. I again ask you kindly, sir, to name

Mr. Arens. Did you ever have any meetings or participate in any
meetings with Philip Reno ?

Dr. Plumb. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. Did you ever attend or participate in any meetings
with Ralph Price ?

Dr. Plumb. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. Were there any meetings of any character or description
which come to your mind where you were in attendance with any of
these persons we have been discussing ?

Dr. Plumb. Just name the people, and I will answer your questions.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been in attendance at any meetings with
Herbert Fuchs ?

Dr. Plumb. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. Do you recall any meetings at all that you attended ?

Mr. Hornbein. During what period of time, please ?

Mr. Arens. During the period of time that you were in Denver
around 1945.

Mr, Hornbein. Up to date ?

Mr, Arens. 1944 to 1945. That is the period we are talking about.

Dr. Plumb. I recall that I attended instructional meetings for block
workers in the Democratic Party.

Mr. Arens. Where were those meetings held ?

Dr. Plumb. I cannot say where they were held.

Mr. Arens. How many meetings did you attend?

Dr. Plumb. About — I cannot say. Very few.

Mr. Arens. Did you attend as many as a half dozen ?

Dr. Plumb. Very few, sir.

Mr. Arens, Did you attend as many as three ?

Dr, Plumb. Two or three, I would say.

Mr. Arens. Who gave you your instructions?

Dr. Plumb, The only person I can recall giving me instructions was
Glenn Earl.

Mr. Arens. Did you, at that time, know he was a member of the
Communist Party?

Dr, Plumb. I certainly did not.

Mr. Arens. Did you ever receive any instructions from Glenn Earl
in Marxism or in communism ?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4105

Dr. Plumb. I did not.

Mr. Arens. Do any sessions come to your mind now. Doctor, in which
any of these individuals we have been discussing deliberated with you
on communism or on Marxism ?

Dr. Plumb. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. I take it you deny categorically that you are now or have
ever been a member.of the Communist Party ?

Dr. Plumb. I do.

Mr. Arens. No further questions.

The Chairman. Mv. Frazier ?

Mr. Frazier. No questions.

The Chairman. Mr. Velde ?

Mr. Velde, No questions.

The Chairiman. There are no further questions, and you are ex-
cused.

The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock.

XWhereupon, at 12 : 05 p. m., the committee was recessed, to recon-
vene at 2 p. m. the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION, TUESDAY, MAY 15, 1956

Committee members present: Representatives Walter (chairman),
and Frazier.

The Chairiman. The committee will be in order.

Call your next witness.

Mr. Arens. If jou please, will Arlyne Plumb kindly come forward.
Please remain standing while the chairman administers an oath to you.

The Chairmax. Raise your right hand, please. Do you swear the
testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mrs. Plumb. I do.

The Chairman. Be seated, please.

TESTIMONY OF ARLYNE M. PLUMB (MRS. DONALD D. PLUMB);
ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, PHILIP HORNBEIN

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.

Mrs. Pluinib. My name is Arlyne Plumb, I live in Wlieat Ridge,
Colo., and I am a housewife.

Mr. Arexs. Are you appearing today, Mrs. Plumb, in response to
a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-
American Activities ?

Mrs. Plumb. That is right.

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mrs. Plumb. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindl}^ identify himself for the record.

Mr. Hornbein. Philip Hornbein, Jr., 620 Symes Building, Denver,
Colo.

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Plumb, would you kindly give us a brief resume
of your background, where you were born and a word about your
early education ?

Mrs. Plumb. I was born on a farm in Montana in 1918. I attended
grammar and high school in Montana. I attended Northern Montana
College for 2 years, Montana State College for 1 semester, and then

4106 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

transferred to the University of Montana where I graduated in 1939
with an AB degree. Since that time I have had 1 semester of graduate
work and an occasional extension course.

Mr. Arexs. Would you kindly give us a comparable i-esume of the
employment you have had since terminating your formal education ?

Mrs. Plumb. Since terminating my formal education my first posi-
tion was with the National Youth Administration;

Mr. Arens. Where, please?

Mrs. Plumb. In Montana.

Mr. Arexs. When?

Mrs. Plumb. That was from approximately the fall of 1940 through
some time in the summer of 1941.

Mr. Arens. In what capacity did you serve in the N YA ?

Mrs. Plumb. I tliink my title was youth personnel supervisor, some-
thing of that sort.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Dwight Spencer in the course of your
employment with the National Youth Administration ?

Mrs. Plumb. No, not at that time.

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly give us the next employment?

Mrs. Plu^ib. The next employment was with the State board of
health in Montana. I think there was perhaps a lapse of about a month
between my NYA eni|)]oyment and tlie State board of health employ-
ment. I think I worked there mitil some time that fall, when I was
employed by the State civilian defense commission.

Mr. Arens. In Montana?

Mrs. Plumb. In Montana.

Mr. Arens. Let us date this, please. Was the State board of health
employment terminated in 1942?

Mrs. Plumb. Let's see. Where were we? I was with NYA from
when ?

Mr. Arens. 1940 and 1941.

Mrs. Plumb. 1940 to 1941.

Ml'. Arens. Tliat is what you told us.

]Mrs. Plumb. I went from there directly to the board of health for
probably a 4- or 5-month period. From there to the State civilian
defense commission. I presume that was the same fall.

Mr. Arens. Kindly give us your next employment.

Mrs. Plumb. Some time shortly after the war the State civilian
defense connnission was given the respoiisibility for setting up the
ration boards and the original controls under OPA. I was transferred
from the State payroll to the Federal payroll at some point and con-
tinued

Mr. Arens. Was that with the OPA?

Mrs. Plumb. Yes.

The State agency assumed that Federal obligation, and it was a
paper shift.

Mr. Arens. Wliat was your next employment, please ?

Mrs. Plumb. I continued with OPA in Montana until some time
the following summer, I would presume July or August, at which
time I moved to Seattle, Wash., and was employed there by the Office
of Price Administration. I worked there

Mr. Arens. That brings us into 1943, does it not?

Mrs. Plujvlb. Yes, that is riglit. I worked with OPA in Seattle
until coming to Denver in the fall of 1943.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4107

Mr. Arens. What was your employment in Denver in the fall of
1943?

Mrs. Plumb. I transferred from the OPA in Seattle to the War
Labor Board in Denver by direct transfer, some time in the fall of
1943.

Mr. Arens. How long were you with the National War Labor
Board in Denver?

Mrs. Plumb. Until December of 1945.

Mr. Arens. Continue, please.

Mrs. Plumb. In January of 1944 I went to work for the National
Farmers Union in Denver and worked there until June of 1949.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Plumb. Yes, January 1946.

Mr. Arens. Then, it was in 1946 you began working with the Na-
tional Farmers Union and worked until 1949, is that correct?

Mrs. Plumb. That is correct.

Mr. Arens. Your next employment, please.

Mrs. Plumb. Since that time I have been a housewife taking care of
my four little kids.

Mr. Arens. Are you the wife of Dr. Donald Plumb, who preceded
you on the stand ?

Mrs. Plumb. That is correct.

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Plumb, have you ever been a member of the Com-
munist Party?

Mrs. Plumb. I have not.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been under conscious Communist Party
discipline?

Mrs. Plumb. I have not.

Mr. Arens. Tell us whether or not you discussed your proposed
appearance here today with any person known by you at any time to
have been a member of the Communist Party ?

Mrs. Plumb. I have not.

Mr. Arens. During the course of your employment with the War
Labor Board in Denver did you know a person by the name of Dwight
Spencer ?

Mrs. Plumb. I did.

Mr. Arens. Is that the gentleman who preceded your husband to
the witness stand?

Mrs. Plumb. That is correct.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Dwight Spencer as a Communist?

Mrs. Plumb. I did not.

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
Dwight Spencer ?

Mrs. Plumb. jMr. Spencer was an employee at the War Labor Board
during the period that I was employed at the War Labor Board.

Mr. Arens. Did you and your husband have any acquaintanceship
with Mr. Spencer other than the acquaintanceship at the War Labor
Board?

Mrs. PLusrB. It would have been directly related to that employ-
ment in the sense that there were frequent social gatherings of all
the employees of the War Labor Board, at which we would attend.

jMr. Arens. Were there gatherings other than strictly social gath-
erings in which you and your husband and JMr. Spencer participated?

IVlrs. Plumb. No.

4108 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. Any meeting, group meetings of any kind, character
or description, other than social gatherings?

Mrs. Plumb, Not that I can possibly recall or think of in this
context.

Mr. Akens. Mrs. Plumb, did you know Herbert Fuchs ?

Mrs. Plumb. Mr. Fuchs was an employee of the War Labor Board
when I was employed at the War Labor Board.

Mr. Arens. Did you ever attend any meetings or any social gath-
erings with Mr. Fuchs ?

Mrs. Plumb. I certainly never attended any meeting of any sort
with Mr. Fuchs. Again I am sure Mr. Fuchs was present at social
gatherings of War Labor Board employees.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fuchs has testified under oath in public session
before this committee that both you and your husband were, to his
knowledge, members of the Communist Party. Was he in error or
was he telling the truth ?

Mrs. Plumb, Mr. Fuchs was certainly in error.

Mr. Arens. Dr. Ralph Price testified likewise before this commit-
tee under oath that both you and your husband were, to his knowledge,
members of the Communist Party. Was that accurate and truthful ?

Mrs. Plumb. It certainly is not accurate.

Mr. Arens, In your own way, give us whatever explanation that
might come to your mind for these two men asserting under oath that
they knew both you and your husband as members of the Communist
Party.

Mrs. Plumb. I can't conceive why they would have done that. Can
you help me out?

The Chairman. Do j^ou know the Dr. Price just mentioned?

Mrs. Plumb. Dr. Price was a fellow employee at the War Labor
Board, yes.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Philip Eeno ?

Mrs. Plumb. I met Philip Reno when he was a candidate in 1944
for election. I never knew Philip Reno at the War Labor Board.

Mr. Arens. Was he a candidate on the Progressive ticket?

Mrs. Plumb. No, on the Democratic ticket.

Mr. Arens, Was he running for Congress ?

Mrs. Plumb. He was running I think for the State legislature.

Mr. Arens. Is that the only basis upon which you knew him ?

Mrs. Plumb. That was my first acquaintance with him.

Mr. Arens. What other acquaintanceship did you have with him ?

Mrs. Plumb. Subsequently I have known him in other organiza-
tions in which he was active.

Mr. Arens. What other organizations?

Mrs. Plumb. We worked together at the National Farmers Union
for a period.

Mr. Arens. Any other organizations?

Mrs, Plumb. There was an organization called — I am not sure of
the title, but it was either the Social Action Council or the Rocky
Mountain Council for Social Action, something of that sort, which
was active in the mayoralty campaign in

Mr. HoRNBEiN. 1947.

Mrs. Plumb. In 1947, in which Mr. Reno was active in helping to
direct campaign activities.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4109

Mr. Arens. Did you know Philip Reno was a Communist?

INIrs. Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. Did j'ou know he has been identified publicly by 2 or 3
persons as a member of the Communist Party and this morning hid
Jbehind the fifth amendment when we asked him about Communist
Party affiliation?

Mrs. Plumb. I heard this morning's testimony.

Mr. Arens. AVere you surprised that he was identified as a Commu-
nist and declined to tell this committee any facts respecting the mat-
ter?

Mr. HoRNBEiN. We object respectfully to that question.

Mr. Arens. Counsel might just as well learn now that counsel's sole
function in this proceeding is to advise his client as to her constitu-
tional rights.

Mr. Hornbein. I understand that. I am advising my witness to
object to that question.

Mrs. Plumb. On advice of counsel I object to that question.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness
be ordered and directed an answer the question.

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.

Mr. Hornbein. If they will tell you what the purpose is of probing
your mind, of trying to find out whether you were surprised. Tell
them that you will answer the question if they will explain to you the
pertinence of the inquiry.

The Chairman. Will you answer the question?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Plu:hb. On advice of counsel I refuse to answer.

Mr. Arens. Did you Icnow John W. Porter during the course of
your employment with tlie National War Labor Board in Denver?

Mrs. Pluimb. T recall Mr. Porter very vaguely as an employee at
the War Labor Board during the brief period that I was at the War
Labor Board.

Mr. Arens. Did you know that he was a Communist?

Mrs. Pluhu?. No.

Mr. Arens. Do you know that he has been identified as a Com-
munist ?

Mrs. Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Margaret Bennett Porter ?

Mrs. Plumb. I may have met her at one time.

Mr. Arens. Could you help us as to why you seem a little vague
about it ?

Mr. Plumb. I have no clear recollection. I don't think I would
know her if I saw her again. I think it is more than likely that I
met her as I said at one of the War Labor Board parties.

Mr. Arens. Can you give us a little more description of these
parties ?

Mrs. Pluivib. Yes. In the interest of employee morale I think it
was the standard practice of both chairmen that I served under at the
War Labor Board to have an officewide party about, oh, twice a year,
to which all employees and their husbands and wives were invited,
for which we would rent a country club or a large building. It would
involve some 200 or 300 people. I remember that we had prepared
skits and entertainment. All of the industry, labor, and public mem-

4110 COMIVIUNIST ACTR^TIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAEST AREA

bers were invited. It was simply a morale-building, get-acquainted,
office party of the kind that occurs at Christmastime.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Martin Kurasch ?

Mrs. Plumb. I recall him as a fellow employee.

Mr. Arens. Tell us the nature of your acquaintanceship with him ?

Mrs. Plumb. He was a fellow employee at the War Labor Board.

Mr. Arens. Is that the only basis on which you had an acquaint-
tanceship with him ?

Mrs. Plumb. I think that is correct.

Mr. Arens. Did you know that Martin Kurasch was a Communist?

Mrs. Plumb. No.'

Mr. Arens. Did you know he has been identified under oath by
witnesses before this committee as a Communist ?

Mrs. Plumb. I heard you say so this morning.

Mr. Arens. Did you know his wife, Lillian Kurasch ?

Mrs. Plumb. I remember his wife.

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of vour acquaintanceship with
her?

Mrs. Plumb. As the wife of a fellow employee at the War Labor
Board.

Mr. Arens. Have you been in any sessions or meetings with her other
than social gatherings ?

Mrs. Plumb. I am not clear in my recollection of this, but I think
it is quite possible than an organization in which I was very active
during the war period, which included several wives of War Labor
Board employees, could very well have included Lillian Kurasch.

Mr. Arens. "Wliat was the name of the organization ?

Mrs. Plumb. It was the Leagiie of Women Shoppers.

Mr. Arens. Did you hold an office or post in the League of Women
Shoppers ?

Mrs. Plumb. I could not give a clear recollection, but I think it more
than likely that I did.

Mr. Arens. Do you recall who was the driving force or the head of
the League of Women Shoppers ?

Mrs. Plumb. I think that there were a variety of officers. I couldn't
be specific as to who was an officer at any given time.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Edward and Cecelia Scheunemann?

Mrs. Plumb. I know Edward and Cecelia Scheunemann.

Mr. Arens. How long have you known them ?

Mrs. Plujib. I knew Cecelia Scheunemann as a fellow employee at
the War Labor Board. Edward Scheunemann, I may have met at
that time. I came to know him much better later as State president
of the Young Democrats when I served on the executive committee of
the Young Democrats.

Mr. Arens. Wlien was your last acquaintanceship with Edward
Scheunemann ?

Mrs. Plumb. The acquaintanceship is a continuing one.

Mr. Arens. You know him at the present date ?

Mrs. Plumb. That is correct.

Mr. Arens. Are you in any activities in concert with Edward
Scheunemann ?

Mrs. Plumb. He is a Democratic committeeman and I am a Demo-
cratic committeewoman. We serve on the county central committee.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Gerald J. Matchett ?

COM]VnjNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4111

Mrs. Plumb. I recall him very vaguely during the War Labor
Board period. I have since met him when he has been in Colorado on
vacations.

Mr. Arens. Wlien did you last have a meeting with him ?

Mrs. Plumb. I can't be specific on that. When he last came to
Colorado.

Mr. Arexs. Within the last year ?

Mrs. Plumb. I think not. I think it was probably some 3 or 4 years
ago.

Mr. Arens. Did you know that he was a Communist ?

Mrs. Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. Do you know that he has been identified, under oath,
in public testimony by witnesses as a member of the Communist
Party?

Mrs. Plumb. I heard your testimony this morning.

Mr. Arens. Did you know it from any source other than what
transpired here this morning ?

Mrs, Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. Did you know JMatchett's wife, Margaret Matchett ?

Mrs. Plumb. I have met his wife.

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
her?

Mrs. Plumb. Again I have met her in recent years when they have
been here on their vacations.

Mr. Arens. Were they guests in your home ?

Mrs. Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. Where did you meet them ?

Mrs. Plumb. I can't be specific on that, but I think what probably
happened is that they were coming through town and someone had
a social occasion to which we were invited.

Mr. Arens. Do you know Raymond LaVallee ?

Mrs. Plumb. I recall Raymond LaVallee very vaguely.

Mr. Arens. Do you have a recollection as to the nature of your
acquaintanceship Avith him ?

Mrs. Plumb. He was a fellow employee during a very small part
of the time that I was employed at the War Labor Board. I think
shortly after he came he was called into the service.

Mr. Arens. Did you know he has been identified as a member of
the Communist Party and when interrogated by this committee re-
specting such membership hid behind the fifth amendment ?

Mrs. Plumb. I so heard this morning.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Dwight Spencer ?

Mrs. Plumb. That is riglit.

Mr. Arens. Did you know him other than as a fellow employee ?

Mrs. Plumb. What do you mean by that ?

Mr. Arens. Did you know him in any capacity other than that of
a fellow employee ?

Mrs. Plumb. Dwight Spencer has been a personal friend of mine.

Mr. Arens. For how long ?

Mrs. Plumb. Well, I would say particularly in the last 3 or 4 years.

Mr. Arens. When was the last time you saw him or had an active
acquaintanceship with him ?

Mrs. Plumb. It is current.

4112 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. Dwight Spencer was instrumental in causing you to be
promoted in 1945 when you were with the War Labor Board ? Is that
not correct ?

Mrs. Plusib. I am not at all sure that that is correct. We had a list
on which vacancies were posted. Those interested applied. There was
a very active personnel office at the Board who evaluated the applica-
tions in terms of qualifications.

Mr. Arens. Did Dwight Spencer recommend you for an advance-
ment or promotion ?

Mrs. Plumb. I couldn't testify to that.

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now a photostatic copy of an interoffice
memorandum dated September 28, 1945, and ask if that refreshes your
recollection as to any incident which may have transpired in connec-
tion with your promotion at the instigation or solicitation of Spencer.

Mrs. Plumb. No ; I have never seen it before.

Mr. Arens. I asked you if that memorandum prompts your recol-
lection in any manner.

Mrs. Plumb. I have never seen this before.

Mr, Arens. I did not ask you whether or not you have seen that
particular document. I asked you whether or not that document
prompts your recollection, stimulates your memory with reference
to any incidents which may have transpired about that time.

Mrs. Plumb. I would presume that the Personnel Division would
probably solicit comments from your immediate supervisors who are
the people in a position to know about your qualifications, whether or
not you were qualified.

Mr. Arens. This document purports to be a memorandum in which
Dwight Spencer, Director of the Disputes Division, in the NWLB,
is requesting a promotion of yourself. Does it not ?

Mrs. Plumb. That is what it says.

Mr. Arens. Were you at that time, in September of 1945 in the
process of being promoted within the National War Labor Board in
Denver?

Mrs. Plusib. I would have no recollection of it myself. That so
indicates.

Mr. Arens. Did you occupy more than one post within the War
Labor Board in Denver in the year 1945?

Mrs. Plumb. I recall that I came to the War Labor Board as wage
analyst in the Wage Stabilization Division, and that my final employ-
ment was in the Disputes Division.

Mr. Arens. Was Dwight Spencer a superior of yours within the
War Labor Board ?

Mrs. Plumb. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Do you recall having any conversation with him respect-
ing an advancement or promotion of yourself ?

Mrs. Plumb. I don't recall.

Mr. Arens. Did you know or have you known a person by the name
of Glenn Earl?

Mrs. Plumb. Yes.

Mr. Arens. "Wliat was the nature of your acquaintanceship with

him?

Mrs. Plumb. He was a fellow employee at the War Labor Board.
Mr. Arens. Did you know that he was a Communist?
Mrs. Plumb. No.

COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4113

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Margaret
Hagler ?

Mrs. PLUiiB. Yes; she ^Yas a fellow employee at the War Labor
Board.

Mr. Ari:ns. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
her?

Mrs. Plumb. I think we worked in the same division for a brief
time.

Mr. Arens, Did you at that time know that she was a member of
the Communist Party?

Mrs. Plumb. No.

(Representative Velde entered the hearing room.)

Mv. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Don Valdez?

Mrs. Plumb. Yes : I think there was a person by that name at the
War Labor Board briefly.

Mr. Arens. Did you have any acquaintanceship or activity with
Don Valdez other than as a fellow employee of the War Labor Board?

]\Irs. Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Mary McLucas?

Mrs. PLUiiB. Yes.

]\Ir. Arens. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
her?

Mrs. Plumb. She was a fellow employee at the War Labor Board.

Mr. Arens. Did you have any other acquaintanceship or activity
with her?

]Mrs. Plumb. Not that I recall.

Mr. Arens. Did you know John McLucas, her husband?

]\Irs. Plumb. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Same nature of acquaintanceship ?

Mrs. Plumb. No ; he was not an employee of the War Labor Board.
I knew him as the husband of a fellow employee.

Mr. Arens. Eugene Clayton ?

Mrs. Plumb. I remember that we were briefly employed together
at the War Labor Board, in the same division.

Mr. Arens. Did you know him in any other capacity, in any way
other than as a fellow employee?

Mrs. Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. Mary Mendelowitz? M-e-n-d-e-1-o-w-i-t-z. Did you
know her ?

Mrs. Plumb. I can't recollect that name. It just doesn't ring a
bell.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Robert C. Williams ?

Mrs. PlujMb. Yes ; I knew Mr. Williams.

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
him ?

Mrs. Plumb, He was a fellow employee at the War Labor Board.

Mr. Arens. Mrs, Plumb, each and every one of these persons whose
names I have just recited to you have been identified under oath before
this committee by more than one person as persons known to have
been members of the Communist conspirac}', and most of whom you
have now said you knew in some capacity or other. Do you have any
sense of indignation that these folks would be fellow employees of
yours and conceal from you their Communist Party membership ?

4114 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mrs. Plumb. I don't laiow that they were members. I have like-
wise been revealed to this committee, and I am not and never have been
a Commmiist. So why should I accept the validity of your charge
on them ?

Mr. Arens. Do you now feel any change in attitude toward these
persons who have been identified as Communists'?

Mrs. Plumb. I certainly do not.

Mr. Arens. Do you still have the same friendly regard for Mr.
Spencer?

Mrs. Plumb. I do.

Mr. Arens. Do you still have a friendly regard for all of these per-
sons who have been identified as Communists?

Mrs. Plu3ib. Most of these people I haven't seen since War Labor
Board days. Those people I have had continued associations with I
have seen nothing to make me feel that these charges are accurate.

Mr. Arens. Have you discussed your proposed appearance here
today with any of these persons who have been named as members of
the Communist Party, other than with your husband, of course.

Mrs. Plumb. I have discussed it with counsel.

Mr. Arens. No ; not with your counsel. With any of the persons
who have been named ?

Mrs. Plumb. Will you repeat your question ?

Mr. Arens. Have you discussed your proposed appearance here
today with any of these people to whom we have just been referring,
such as Dwight Spencer, Philip Reno, Porter, Kurasch, and so forth?

Mr. Hornbein. Read the names over.

Mrs. Plumb. Let's have the list and I will take them one at a time.

Mr. Arens. I will show you the list and you can look at the list and
see if you have discussed your proposed appearance here today with
any of the persons whose names appear on tnat list.

Mrs. Plumb. I have discussed it with Ed Scheunemann.

Mr. Arens. Pause a moment. When did you have a discussion with
Ed Scheunemann about your proposed appearance here today ?

Mrs. Plu3ib. I discussed it with Ed Scheunemann on a very general
basis on the press release that came out in the paper last December in
which I was named along with Mr. Scheunemann as part of the Com-
munist group.

Mr. Arens. "Wliere did that conversation take place?

Mrs. Plumb. I presume it took place at my home or at his home,

Mr. Arens. Did you go to his home or did he come to your home ?

Mrs. Plu3ib. I don't know that it is relevant. We are close per-
sonal friends. We visit back and forth.

Mr. Arens. Do you recall whether it was in your home or in his
home?

Mrs. Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. Do you recall who was present besides Scheunemann
when that conversation transpired ?

Mrs. Plumb. Presumably my husband was.

Mr. Arens. Do you recall any other person who was present ?

Mrs. Plumb. I don't recall.

Mr. Arens. Now give us the essence of the conversation.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Plumb. We discussed in the most general terms

(The witness conferred with her counsel. )

COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4115

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that counsel be
admonished that his function here is not to tell a witness what to say.
Counsel's sole and exclusive function is to advise the witness respecting
her constitutional rights.

The Chairman. 1 am assuming that counsel knows what Ms posi-
tion is.

Mr. HoRNBEix. That is quite correct.

The Chairmax. I think he has a copy of the rules.

Mr. HoRXBEiN. Yes, I am duly aware of them.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully submit what I overheard coimsel say is
clearly in violation.

Mr. HoRXBEix. If you wouldn't eavesdrop the conversation you
wouldn't be so surprised.

Mr. Arexs. "Will you continue with your testimony.

Mrs. Plumb. Repeat the question, please.

Mr. Arexs. Give us the essence of the conversation which took place
between you and Mr. Scheunemann.

Mrs. Plumb. I think that it would probably be in this framework :
"My Lord, how does anything this outrageous come about? What do
you do about it? How do you answer it? What could be the
possibility"

Mr. Arexs. Tliat is exactly what your counsel said to you a few
moments ago : is it not ? Counsel is not running this proceeding.

Mr. Horxbein. Mr. Chairman, we ask that counsel be instructed to
be fair with this witness.

The Chairman. Proceed with your answer, Mrs. Plumb.

Mrs. Plu^ib. I came here with every intention of trying to give you
facts and information, not to be badgered. I hope that you will respect
my sincerity.

Mr. HoRXBEix. She is trying her best, but counsel interrupts her
all the time.

Mrs. Plumb. Am I on trial or are you here to get facts?

Mr. Arexs. Mrs. Plumb, will ^-ou kindly tell us whether or not
you have discussed your proposed appearance here today with any
person whose name appears on this list other than Edward Scheune-
mann ?

Mrs. Plumb. I am sure that I have discussed it in a very informal
way with the Spencers. They are friends. It would be perfectly
natural and automatic, since we are both named in the same context
that we would say, "My gosh, what are we going to do about this?"

Mr. Arexs. Wliat transpired between you and the Spencers in your
conversation ?

Mrs. Plutnib. '\Miat I have just told you.

Mr. xVrexs. You just talked about the Scheunemanns. You didn't
tell us what the Spencers said.

Mrs. Plumb. It would be the same thing with Spencers.

Mr. Arexs. Was Spencer outraged too?

Mrs. Plumb. I think Mr. Spencer spoke for himself.

Mr. Arexs. Was he outraged during this conversation that you
had with him?

Mrs. Pltimb. Mr. Spencer doesn't outrage easily.

Mr. Arexs. Did he deny to you that he was a member or had been
a member of the Communist conspiracy ?

79079—56 — pt. 1 4

4116 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mrs. Plumb. He certainly did.

Mr. Arens. You didn't hear him deny it this morning, when he was
under oath, did you ?

Mrs. Plumb. Mr. Counsel <

The Chateman. Answer the question. You didn't hear him deny
it this morning, did you ?

Mrs. Plumb. No, I didn't hear him deny it.

Mr. Arens. Was there any other person whose name appears on
this list who has been identified as a member of the Communist con-
spiracy with whom you discussed your appearance here ?

Mrs. Plumb. Let me see the list again.

(The witness examined the list.)

Mrs. Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not Spencer or Scheunemann
indicated to you that they wanted to vindicate their good names and
appear before the committee and deny the statements made under oath
by witnesses that they were members of the Communist conspiracy?

Mrs. Plumb. No.

Mr. Arens. Did you make any overtures to the committee to deny
the allegations respecting Communist Party membership by yourself ?

Mrs. Plumb. My first contact with this committee was the subpena
served upon me.

Mr. Arens. Wlien was that, Mrs. Plumb ?

Mrs. Plumb. I don't have it with me. It was about 3 weeks ago.

Mr. Arens. If you were so outraged, why did you not solicit an
opportunity to deny under oath before the committee any allegations
respecting yourself which were made last December ?

Mrs. Plumb. I didn't know of anything until I read the Denver Post
last December.

Mr. Arens. Has any bitterness ever developed between you and your
husband and Mr. Price who identified you and your husband as per-
sons know by him to be Communists ?

Mrs. Plumb. Not that I am aware of.

Mr. Arens. Has any bitterness developed between you and your
husband and Mr. Herbert Fuchs, who has testified under oath before
this committee that he knew you as Communists ?

Mrs. Plumb. Not that I am aware of.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions of this wit-
ness.

The Chairman. Any questions ?

The witness is excused.

Call your next witness.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Edward Scheunemann.

Please remain standing while the chairman administers the oath to
you, Mr. Scheunemann.

The Chairman. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?

Mr. Scheunemann. I do.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4117

TESTIMONY OF EDWARD J. SCHEUNEMANN, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, PHILIP HORNBEIN, JR.

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. M}^ name is Edward J. Scheunemann. I live
at 2035 Routt, Lakewood, Colo. I am an attorney practicing law
in Denver, Colo.

Mr. Akens. Are you appearing today in response to a subpena which
was served upon you by this committee ?

Mr. ScHEUENMANN. I am.

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. Scheunemann. I am.

Mr. HoRNBEiN. Philip Hornbein, Jr., 620 Symes Building, Denver,
Colo.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Scheunemann, for the purpose of further identifi-
cation, are you the husband of Cecelia Scheunemann ?

Mr. Scheunemann. I am.

Mr. xIrens. Could you tell us where she is at the present time ?

Mr. Scheunemann. At the present time she is in Northville, Mich.

Mr. Arens. Visiting ?

Mr. Scheunemann. Yes, visiting, and I may add that this is the
first time any member of this committee has asked me where she lives.
If you imply by that that she is in hiding, I resent it highly.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Scheunemann, give us, if you please, a hrief sketch
of your early life, where you were born, when, and a word about your
education.

Mr, Scheunemann. I was born in Leadville, Colo., on May 6, 1914.
I graduated from high school in Leadville, Colo. I attended the
University of Colorado at Boulder, where I received my bachelor of
arts degree in 1935. I was an instructor in public speaking for 1 year
and then entered the law school at the University of Colorado, where
I was graduated from law school in 1939.

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, a brief rundown of your em-
ployment since you completed your formal education, which I take
it occurred at the conclusion of your work at Colorado University.

Mr. Scheunemann. Yes ; my first job directly out of law school was
with the National Labor Relations Board as a review attorney begin-
ning, I believe, in the last of August or the first of September in 1939,

Mr. Arens. Where was that ?

Mr. Scheunemann. That was in Washington, D. C. I continued
with the National Labor Relations Board until approximately March
or June, I think, of 1941, at which time I transferred to the United
States Housing Authority in Washington, D. C. I stayed there, I
believe, until February or JMarch of 1942, at which time I took ad-
vantage of an opportunity to get back to Colorado and transferred to
the OPA.

I was assigned to the Enforcement Division of OPxV in Denver,
Colo.

Mr. Arens. I didn't get the date that you went with OPA.

Mr. Scheunemann. I believe it was about February or March of
1942.

Mr. Arens. In what capacity did you serve with the OPA in
Denver ?

4118 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. As an enforcement attorney in the regional
office.

Mr. Arens. Proceed.

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I was witli OPA until the summer of 1944, the
summer or fall, when I resigned from OPA for the immediate purpose
of working full time in the 1944 election campaign. In December
when that campaign was over I entered private practice of law here
in Denver, Colo.

Mr. Aeens. Have you been engaged in practice of the law since
then?

Mr. Scheut^temann. I have.

Mr. Arens. Have you discussed your proposed appearance here
today with any person other than with your wife and with your
counsel ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. Yes ; I have. In general terms I have dis-
cussed it with a number of people. Prior to the time that I was sub-
penaed, I discussed it with anybody who asked me about the newspaper
stories. Since I have been subpenaed I have discussed it with Dr.
and Mrs. Plumb on 2 or 3 occasions, not in terms of what testimony
would be but in a joint effort to ascertain what the facts were which
might give rise to this.

Mr. Arens. Did you discuss with Dr. and Mrs. Plumb their pro-
posed testimony or appearance before this committee ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I did not discuss their testimony. We had a
general discussion as to what the facts were and what the associations
were, what could have been in Mr. Fuchs' mind, just a general discus-
sion as to what it was all about.

Mr. Arens. "^Vliere did that conversation take place ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. In their home, I believe, primarily, although
possibly the doctor was in my home on one occasion.

Mr. Arens. Did you consult Avith them in a professional capacity or
just as a friend?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I would think it was perhaps semiprof essional
because they knew I was a lawyer and they did raise questions and we
discussed questions as to what your rights are, but I was not employed
as an attorney in a professional sense.

Mr. Arens. I shall not ask you to presume to violate any profes-
sional confidences between yourself and a client, if you were in a
client-lawyer relationship there. Is there any other person or persons
with whom you have discussed your appearance or their appearance
before this committee, other than in a professional caj^acity ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I havc discussed it very briefly with Phil Reno,
with Dwight Spencer.

Mr. Arens. \Vlien did you discuss it with Phil Reno ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. He called me from Taos when he was first sub-
penaed and asked me if we could represent him in this proceeding or
advise him in it, or if we couldn't, if we could recommend an attorney,
and I did that.

Mr. Arens. You did what?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. Recommended an attorney or suggested the
names of several attorneys, and suggested that he interview them and
make his own decision.

Mr. Arens. Did you discuss your appearance here today with Phil
Reno?

COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4119

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I told him that I had been subpenaed and
therefore could not represent him, or I expected to be subpenaed.

Mr. Arens. Did you discuss with him his appearance today, other
than to advise liim or su^rgest a counsel to him?

Mr. ScHEUXE:\rANX. We discussed the appearance; yes, certainl^^.

Mr. Arens. With whom else have you had conversations respecting
your appearance?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I have had a conversation with Robert W.
Kenny from Los Anf^eles who was here in Denver.

]Vf r!^ Arens. Could you identify him for us ?

Mr. Scheune:mann. He is an attorney in Ivos Angeles. I have dis-
cussed the fact that I was appearing here with Nathan Witt, who is
an attorney from New York City.

Mr. Arens. What is the nature of your acquaintanceship with
Nathan Witt ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I met Nathan Witt when we first started prac-
ticing law. AYe represented the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers on
a number of important suits in Colorado, Wyoming, and New Mexico.
Nathan Witt was the general counsel in New York and we had rather
voluminous correspondence in connection with those suits. He came
to Denver on at least one occasion for the purpose of discussing the
suits with local attorneys. That is the first time I met him.

Mr. xVrens. When did you have this discussion with Nathan Witt
respecting your appearance here today?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. Tliis lias been several weeks ago. He called
my office and said he was in town and asked if we would like to have
lunch with him. I said I would be very happy to have lunch with
him.

Mr. Arens. "VAHiat transpired?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. We just had lunch, and I told him I had been
subpenaed. He said he had been through this 7 or 8 times. That is
about the size of it.

Mr. Arens. Did you know he is one of the hardest hard-core Com-
munists in the country today?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I kuow the charge has been made, Mr. Arens.
I have no personal knowledge of that.

Mr. Arens. With whom else have you had a discussion respecting
your appearance here today?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I dou't recall anybody else that I have dis-
cussed this appearance with.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Herbert Fuchs testified before this committee under
oath that he knew you as a member of the Communist Party in the
National Labor Relations Board in Washington, D. C. Did you know
Mr. Fuchs?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I kucw him ; yes.

Mr. Arens. Did you know him as a Communist ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I did not.

Mr. ^VjtENs. Did you know a person by the name of Allan Rosenberg
when you were at the National Labor Board in Washington?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. No.

Mr. Arens. Martin Kurasch ?

Mr, ScHEUNEMANN. I did not know him except by sight. I did
know him later in Denver.
Mr. Arens. Joseph Robison, R-o-b-i-s-o-n?

4120 COMJMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN^. I didn't know Mr. Robison. I knew there was
a man by that name on the staff of the Board. I had heard his name
or seen his name on decisions.

Mr. Arens. David Rein ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I knew him.

Mr. AnENs. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
David Rein?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN". He was an attorney on the staff. He was also
president of the NLRB Union. I later know him quite well in connec-
tion with the Washington Committee for Democratic Action of which
we were both members.

Mr. Arens. Were you by any chance a member of the National
Lawyers Guild when you were in Washington ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I lecall having attended 1 or 2 meetings.
Whether I ever paid dues or signed an application I don't recall.

Mr. Arens. Did you know David Rein in any other organizations?

Mr. Scheunemann. No ; I did not.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Woodrow Sandler?

Mr. Scheunemann. I did.

Mr. Arens. "Wliat was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
him?

Mr. Scheunemann. He was on the review staff and was for a time
one of my office mates.

Mr. Arens. Were you in any organization with him ?

Mr. Scheunemann. He was a member and quite active in this
Washington Committee for Democratic Action.

Mr. Arens. Did you belong to any other organizations of which he
was a member ?

Mr. Scheunemann. Not that I recall.

Mr. Arens. When is the last time you saw or had any contact with
Woodrow Sandler?

Mr. Scheunemann. He left the Board, if I recall correctly, before
I did, so that would have been some time in the year 1941 or 1942.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Jacob H. Krug, K-r-u-g?

Mr. Scheunemann. I have no recollection of him whatever, except
that I have seen that name. Where I saw it I don't know. Possibly
on a board decision. I certainly have seen it in the newspapers since
the Fuchs testimony was published.

Mr. Arens. Did you know INIortimer Riemer ?

Mr. Scheunemann. No; I did not.

Mr. Arens. John W. Porter?

Mr. Scheunemann. I first met him when I came back to Denver in
1942. He was in Denver at the time as an attorney in the Antitrust
Division. He transferred to the OPA about the same week I did. I
met him first here in Denver.

Mr. Arens. Is that the only basis on which you had an acquaint-
anceship with him ?

Mr. Scheunemann. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Did you know his wife, Margaret ?

Mr. Scheunemann. I did not know her although I knew she was
at the National Labor Relations Board for a short time when I was
there.

Mr. Arens. How about Ruth Weyand? Did you know her in
Washington ?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES LN" THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4121

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I liavG never met her or known her or seen
her.

Mr. Arens. Harry Cooper ?

Mr. Scheunemann. I have no recollection of him in any way.

Mr. Arens. Frank Donner?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. The name is familiar. I don't recall the
person.

Mr. Arens. Bertram Diamond?

Mr. Scheunemann. Again I recall the name as being on the review
staff. I have a vague recollection that I probably have met him.

Mr. Arens. When did your association with the Washington Com-
mittee for Democratic Action cease?

Mr. Scheunemann. It is hard to say exactly because as I recall the
Washington Committee for Democratic Action just sort of died of
attrition and disintegrated.

Mr. Arens. When is the last time you recall having an identity
with it?

Mr. ScHEUNEisrANN. I would say it was about April of 1941, ap-
proximately. I recall having appeared in a public meeting then. I
don't recall anything after that.

Mr. Arens. Did you know that since your affiliation with the Wash-
ington Committee for Democratic Action it has been cited as sub-
versive and Communist by the Attorney General ?

Mr. Scheunemann. I have heard that. I have not seen the list.
I have no personal knowledge of it. I have heard, I might say, not
that it has been cited as Communist but that it was cited as, what
do you say, Communist infiltrated, or something of that sort.

Mr. Arens. It was cited twice, first by Attorney General Biddle
in 1942, as an organization which had been Communist infiltrated,
which apparently was a year after you disassociated yourself from
it, and it was cited as subversive and Communist by then Attorney
General Tom Clark in 1947 and again in 1948.

Mr. Scheunemann. As I say, I have no personal knowledge of
those citations or what they were based on.

Mr. Arens. Wliat transpired in this conversation between you and
Mr. Philip Eeno?

Mr. Scheunemann. WTiat conversation?

Mr. Arens. The conversation that you recounted a few moments
ago with reference to his appearance here.

Mr. Scheunemann. As I say, the only conversation that I recall
having had is when he called me and asked if we could suggest an
attorney if we could not represent him. Since then I saw him this
morning on the way to the court room. We had no conversation about
this, except "Well, here we are." I have not discussed his testimony
or what he would do and he has not. As far as I know I have not told
liim what I was going to say except that I was going to testify.

Mr, Arens. Did any personal animosity ever develop between you
and Mr. Fuchs ?

Mr. Scheunemann. Between me and Mr, Fuchs ?

Mr, Arens. Yes.

Mr. Scheunemann, Not to my knowledge,

Mr. Arens, Mr. Fuchs testified that he actually recruited you into
the Communist Party. Do you have any recollection of that occur-
rence ?

4122 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. No ; I do not. I might say it is not true.
Wliether it is a deliberate lie or a mistake, or an unwarranted assump-
tion, I don't know, but it is not a fact.

Mr. Arens. Have you developed a sense of indignation toward these
many people whom you have known as fellow employees, and who
have since been identified under oath as members of the Communist
conspiracy ?

Mr. Scheunemann. I have no sense of indigation that they have
been — you mean do I have a sense of indignation because I feel they
were Communists all the time and didn't tell me ?

Mr. Aeens. Yes.

Mr. Scheuxemann. No, I haven't, because with the exception of
one person, none of the others to my personal knowledge were Com-
munists. I do not accept the fact even now that they were Commu-
nists. I still have an open mind on that.

Mr. Arens. Who is that person ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. That I must refuse to answer because of the
personal relationship of attorney-client which existed between us
beginning in 1946.

Mr. Arens. Did you acquire information respecting that person's
Communist Party membership exclusively and solely on the basis of
your relationship as attorney and client?

Mr. Scheunemann. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Did you have a sense of indignation toward Nathan
Witt, who would have the gall to call you and invite you to lunch
when he has been repeatedly identified as a hard core member of the
Communist conspiracy in this Nation ?

Mr. Scheunemann. None whatever.

Mr. Arens. Have you been identified with a publication called
Challenge?

Mr. Scheunemann. Yes ; I have. Challenge was a newspaper and
I served as its attorney at the time it was incorporated. I advised it
when they requested legal advice for a short period after it began
publication. My only connection with Challenge in any sense was
that I was attorney at the time it was organized.

Mr. Arens. Do j^ou recall who engaged you as attorney ?

Mr. Scheunemann. Graham Dolan.

Mr. Arens. Do you know that Graham Dolan, who employed you as
counsel for Challenge, has been identified as a Communist before a
Senate committee ?

Mr. Scheunemann. I do not know that ; no.

Mr. Arens. Do you know that he appeared before the Senate Inter-
nal Security Subcommittee and hid behind the fifth amendment?

Mr. Scheunemann. Mr. Arens, I don't know whether he appeared
or not and I do not agree that anybody hides behind the fifth amend-
ment. I think the fifth amendment is a shield for the innocent as
well as the guilty. I draw no inferences whatsoever from the invok-
ing of the fifth amendment.

The Chairman. Let's draw our own conclusions about it. Instead
of talking about hiding behind the fifth amendment, let us say invok-
ing the fifth amendment, which can mean anything that you or I
want it to mean.

Mr. Scheunemann. I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman.

COMMUNIST ACT1^•ITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4123

Mr, Arexs. ^V]\o euiiaijod a'ou as counsel for the International
Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers ?

Mr. ScTiEUNEMAXx. I don't recall actnally who did. We have repre-
sented a number of locals of the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers both
when they were in the Mine, IMill and Smelter Workers and when they
disaffiliated from the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers.

Mr. Arens. Was your association with the Mine, Mill and Smelter
Workers exclusively as attorney-client ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. Yes; it was.

Mr. Arens. Did you represent Maurice Travis ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. Never.

Mr. Arens. When did you last have a professional relationship
with the International Union of ^Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers?

Mr. Scheunemann. I believe that it would be in — I can only
guess — I think around 1946. We wrote a brief in a criminal case in
New Mexico which had been appealed to the Supreme Court of New
Mexico. We were engaged by the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers.
I don't believe we have had any association in a professional way with
them since approximately 1946. Since that time we have represented
locals of the Mine, IMill, and Smelter Workers and the steelworkers.
We represented them as counsel for the United Steel Workers of Amer-
ica against the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers.

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the nam of Shirley Bramhall ?

Mr. Scheunemann. I have met her.

Mr. Arens. What is the nature of your acquaintanceship with her ?

Mr. Scheunemann. I met her as a member of the Boulder Young
Democrats at the time we set up the Young Democrats of Colorado.

Mr. Arens. In what capacity was she serving ?

Mr. Scheunemann. I don't recall that she was serving in any
capacity. I just recall her and her husband as being in the first
dimension in which the Young Democrats were set up.

Mr. Arens. In what capacity did you serve ?

Mr. Scheunemann. I was State president of the Young Democrats
of Colorado.

Mr. Arens. Have you had any association with her since then?

Mr. Scheunemann. Not that I recall.

Mr. Arens. Do you know or have you known a person by the name
of Irving Blau?

Mr. Scheunemann. I do not know him. I think I have met him.

Mr. Arens. Do you recall the nature of your acquaintanceship with
him?

Mr. Scheunemann. The only recollection I have of ever having
seen him was in one meeting of the board of directors of Challenge
when I was asked to give a judgment as to whether a proposed article
was libelous or not. I think he was there. It is a vague recollection.
I think it occurred.

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of David Bramhall ?

Mr. Scheunemann. Yes. He was a member of the Young Demo-
crats of Colorado and I think an officer in the Young Democrats at
the University of Colorado.

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
him ?

Mr. Scheunemann. Solely that. He attended the convention in
which we founded the State organization.

4124 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. How about Martha Correa, C-o-r-r-e-a. Have you
known her ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. No, I do uot know her. I have seen her name
and heard her name, of course.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been solicited for membership in the
Communist Party?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. No, I have not. I would like to go into that
if I may. I would like to say this: During this whole period of
years and particularly since I have been in private practice I have
been fairly prominent at least in liberal, somewhat left-wing activ-
ities. I am sure anybody wlio knew me well enough to have asked
that kind of question would also know me well enough not to ask it.
First, because I am a Catholic and have been a practicing Catholic all
my life. Second, I have been a member and active member of the
Democratic Party all my life. I have expressed myself on every
occasion where I thought it was necessary or appropriate as not being
in accord with certain features of the Communist Party or the Com-
munist program.

Mr. Arens. Wliat are these features that you are not in accord
with?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I object to what I understand, at least from
past reading, the attitude of the Communist Party toward religion.
I object to the one-party system which has developed in Russia. I
object to what seems to me to be a devotion or at least a closeness on the
part of the American Communist Party to the Russian Communist
Party. I object to any form of dictatorship, whether it be Commu-
nist, Fascist, or any other kind.

Mr. Arens. Did you register this objection and indignation towards
communism to Nathan Witt in this last session you had with him ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I liave never discussed communism with
Nathan Witt, I have never seen the necessity of it. He has never tried
to discuss it with me. My only discussions with Nathan Witt have
been in connection with practical, immediate problems.

Mr. Arens. Did you have any qualms of conscience in undertaking
to solve practical immediate problems with a person who has been
repeatedly identified as a hard-core agent of the international Com-
munist conspiracy ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I liave no problems whatsoever. I respect the
right of a man to be a Communist if he chooses to be one. I do not
share his beliefs.

Mr. Arens. Do you respect the right of a man to be a traitor if he
chooses to be one ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. No, I do uot.

Mr. Arens. Do you make a distinction between a traitor and a
member of the Communist conspiracy?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I Certainly do. I would never accuse anyone
of being a traitor unless he were convicted of the act.

Mr. Arens. Did you register your indignation toward communism
to Philip Reno, who has been identified as a Communist?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. I did not.

Mr. Arens. I have no further questions of this witness.

The Chairman. Any questions?

Mr. Frazier. No questions.

Mr. Velde. Yes, I would like to ask just one question.

. COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4125

Were you active in the 1948 campaign ?

Mr. ScHEUNEMANN. In the 1948 campaign? Yes, Mr. Velde, I was
president of the State Young Democrats until the very beginning of
that campaign, and I continued actively through the campaign for
the Democratic Party. I never joined the Progressive Party, if that
is what is in your mind, and I never liad any connection with it.

The Chairman. Is that all, Mr. Velde?

Mr. Velde. Yes.

The Chairman. The witness is excused.

Mr. Arens. May we have a short recess.

The Chairman. Yes. The committee will stand in recess for 5
minutes.

(Brief recess.)

The Chairman, The committee will be in order.

Call your next witness, Mr. Arens.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Bellarmino Duran, please.

Kindly remain standing while the chairman administers the oath
to you.

The Chairman. Do you swear that the testimony you are about
to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?

Mr. Duran. I do.

TESTIMONY OF BELLARMINO JOE DURAN

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence and occu-
pation.

Mr. Duran. My name is Bellarmino Joe Duran. First name B-e-1-
1-a-r-m-i-n-o, I live at 1265 West 10th Avenue in Denver, Colo. I
am a plasticizing press operator.

Mr. Arens, Mr, Chairman, may I respectfully announce for the
purpose of the information of the committee and for this record that
Mr. Duran has a physical impediment which makes it necessary for
him to relax from time to time, every 15 or 20 minutes.

The Chairman. You just indicate when that is necessary.

Mr. Arens. If you will kindly do so. That will not press you too
hard, Mr. Duran. If you feel it is necessary for you to relax, let us
know and we will suspend.

Mr, Duran, give us a brief thumbnail sketch of your early life, where
and when you w^ere born and a word about your education prior to the
time that you became an adult.

Mr, Duran. I was born in Dulce, N. Mex., on December 10, 1923.
My education is the seventh grade, grade school,

Mr. Arens. Give us a word, just in sketch form, about your activi-
ties and employment since you completed your grade-school education.

Mr, Duran. The first thing I did after I left school was to join the
Civilian Conservation Corps to help the family out. I got an honor-
able discharge out of that, I went back to w^ork on the farm until
1942, when I was drafted in the Army. I was discharged 2 weeks
after that for medical reasons, for tuberculosis. In 1945 we moved
into Denver, Colo, I worked at Montgomery Ward. I worked at the
Colorado Motor Freight Co. Then I went into the hospital in 194G
and came out in 1948. In the hospital I received a three-stage
thoracoplasty.

4126 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

The year 1949 I worked for Frey & Cunningham, printers and
stationers. Later, after a relapse in 1949 and 1950, I worked with
the Variety Bakery, the Dutch's Drive-In, and I worked for Luby
Chevrolet in 1953. In 1954 I worked for the Alpine Cleaners in
Denver. At present I am working for Shwayder Bros.

Mr. Arens. Wliat is Shwayder Bros. ?

Mr. DuRAN. That is a factory where they make suitcases and other
items.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Duran, have you ever been a member of the Com-
munist Party?

Mr. Duran. Yes, sir ; I have.

Mr. Arens. Tell us first of all the date on which you joined the
Communist Party.

Mr. Duran. I joined the Communist Party of Colorado in 1948, in
the fall.

Mr. Arens. Tell us when you disassociated yourself from the Com-
munist Party or had your relationship severed with the Communist
Party.

Mr. Duran. I was expelled from the Communist Party on April
3,1955.

Mr. Arens. Were you at any time ideologically identified with the
Communist Party? By "ideologically identified," I mean were you
in sympathy with the Communist Party at any time during the
period of your membership from 1948 to 1955 ?

Mr. Duran. A bona fide member ; no sir.

Mr. Arens. You were a member of the Communist Party solely
and exclusively at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation
to serve your country ; is that correct ?

Mr. Duran. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Arens. Durino; the period of your service in the Communist
Party were you making periodic reports to the Federal Bureau of
Investigation ?

Mr. Duran. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly, at your own pace and in your own
way, tell us the circumstances of your joining the Communist Party,
who recruited you into the Communist Party, and give us a historical
account of your activities in the Communist Party and people whom
you knew in that operation.

Any time that you feel you are obliged to recess for a little while,
just let us know.

Mr. Duran. In the summer of 1948 I heard a broadcast on the radio
by President Harry Truman in which he stated that the FBI would
be in control and would be the agency for any citizen contact with any
subversive activities in the community. That gave me the idea that
there was something wrong. Immediately after that there were Com-
munists in the Progressive Party in the Denver area who were using
a sound truck to carry out their propaganda in Spanish and in Eng-
lish. It did not sound very American the Avay they were talking
against the Government. The people who were doing it were Robert
Trujillo from 4030 Tejon Street, Denver, and Dave Bramhall from
Denver.

Mr. Arens. How did you know these people ?

Mr. Duran. Later on I became acquainted with them within the
Communist Party.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4127

Mr, Arens. I don't want to interrupt the chronology of your activi-
ties in the party. Please proceed.

Mr. DuRAX.*^ I took the leaflet to the FBI office and reported orally
the agitation which was going on in the Spanish- American community.
It seemed to be taking in some innocent people.

Mr. Arens. You are of Spanish descent or some Spanish derivation ;
are you not ?

Mr. DuRAX. I am Spanish.

Mr. Arens. You speak Spanish and understand the language?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Proceed, please.

Mr. Duran. Later on an FBI agent contacted me and asked me if
I wanted to do a patriotic job to the country and to the American peo-
ple. I agreed, and I went in.

Mr. Arens. You joined the Communist Party? Is that what you
mean?

Mr. DtJRAN. I went into the Communist Party to gather information
for the Government, for the FBI.

Mr. Arens. Could you tell us first of all who solicited you to join
the Communist Party and how you actually affiliated yourself with
that conspiracy ?

^Ir. Duran. In 1948 during the Progressive Party campaign, there
was also a youth ^larxist-Leninist study group which Harold Zepelin
and Fred Trujillo and others belonged to. They invited me in to
try to indoctrinate me in the philosophy of communism.

Mr. Arens. Was that itself a Communist cell or just a study group
for indoctrination of people who would eventually be taken into the
Communist Party ?

Mr. DuRAX. It was the school to try to indoctrinate people before
they came into the party, so the}' could meet the standards of coming
into the party.

Mr. Arens. Was that school conducted here in the Denver area ?

Mr. DuRAX. The school was conducted in the Sam Kaplan grocery
store at Decatur and West Colfax.

]Mr. Arexs. Who solicited you to become a member of that study
group ?

Mr. DuRAx. Harold Zepelin.

Mr. Arexs. Did you know him prior to the time that he solicited
you to become a member ?

Mr. Durax. Right at that time I had met Harold Zepelin in the
Labor Youth League on the East Side, and I was already in touch
with the FBI. I gave him some of my opinions, and he asked me that
I should come into the Communist Party and become a leading Mexi-
can cadre as they were going into Mexican fieldwork full blast.

Mr. Arexs. Is the record clear, Mr. Duran? Did Harold Zepelin,
Z-e-p-e-1-i-n, recruit you into the Communist Party?

Mr. Durax. No, sir. He approached me, and I decided it was
better to let Juan Martinez recruit me into the party.

Mr, Arexs. Did Juan Martinez, M-a-r-t-i-n-e-z, recruit you into
the Communist Party ?

Mr, Durax, Yes, sir; he did.

Mr. Arens, Can you identify him for us?

Mr. Duran, Juan Martinez was a member at the time I joined of
the West Side Mexican Branch of the Communist Party of Colorado.

4128 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr, Arens. Tell us all you know about that West Side Mexican
Branch of the Communist Party. Who were the members of the cell
or of the branch ? Identify each person.

Mr. DtiRAN. In 1948, after accepting the invitation of Juan Mar-
tinez to join the Communist Party, he told me that there would be a
meeting at 2783 West Colfax the coming Sunday, and I was not to
go there unless I went with him, Juan Martinez. On that Sunday at
10 o'clock Martinez and I went into this place and there was a meeting
going on and political guidance from the county. Robert Trujillo
acted as chairman.

Mr. Arens. Let's get these names clearly now. Anna Bary was
at the meeting?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Was this a closed Communist Party meeting ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Open only to comrades in good standing in the con-
spiracy ; is that correct ?

Mr. DuRAN. That is true.

Mr. Arens. You say another person there was Robert — and his last
name is T-r-u-j-i-1-l-o ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes.

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. In what capacity was he serving there ?

Mr. DuRAN. He was the chairman of tlie branch at that time.

Mr. Arens. Who else was at that branch meeting?

Mr. DuRAN. At that branch meeting was Julius Apodaca — ^A-p-
o-d-a-c-a.

Mr. Arens. Can you identify Julius Apodaca?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes, sir : I can.

Mr. Arens. I mean tell us what he did — what was his office or post.

Mr. DuRAN. At that time I did not know his post. In early 1949,
when the reorganization of the West Side Mexican section took hold,
he was the literature director, a member of the executive board of the
West Side Branch of the Communist Party in Colorado.

Mr. Arens. Is there another person whom you knew and can identify
as a person who to your certain knowledge was a member of the West
Side Mexican Branch of the Communist Party ?

Mr. DuRAN. There was the political leader, the secretary, Jane
Rogers.

Mr. Arens. R-o-g-e-r-s?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes. The Daily Worker organizer, Juan Martinez.

Mr. Arens. M-a-r-t-i-n-e-z ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes.

Mr. Arens. And Juan is J-u-a-n ?

Mr. DuRAN. J-u-a-n. And a man and woman by the name of
Mr. and Mrs. Phillipe Lopez — Lo-p-e-z.

Mr. Arens. Phillipe Lopez.

Mr. DuRAN. Yes.

Mr. Arens. What was his wife's name, do you know ?

Mr. DuRAN. I do not know.

Mr. Arens. But his wife was also a member of the West Side Mex-
ican Branch of the Communist Party ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes ; she was.

Mr. Arens. Were there other persons who to your certain loiowledge
were members of that branch ?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4129

Mr. DuEAN. There were ex officios of the branch, Martha Correa.

Mr. Arens. How do you spell Correa ?

Mr. DuRAN. C-o-r-r-e-a. And Harold Zepelin. That is spelled
Z-e-p-e-1-i-n.

Mr. Arens. When you saj^ an ex officio member of the branch j'ou
are not precluding the fact that they were Communists ?

Mr. DuRAN. No, sir. I mean that they are the ones who came down
to the section to battle the ideology and carry out the Communist
Party line.

Mr. Arens. But you are here and now identifying Lopez and Zepe-
lin as persons who to your certain knowledge were members of the
West Side Mexican Branch of the Communist Party of Denver, Colo. ?

Mr. Dtjr^\x. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us the names of any other persons who to
your certain knoAvledge were members of this branch ?

Mr. Duran. I don't recall myself at this time.

Mr. Arens. Before we proceed with another item in the chronology
of 3'our career in the Communist Party, can you tell us what this
West Side Mexican branch did ?

Mr. Duran. The West Side Mexican Branch carried out the policy
of the Communist Party higher cell into the Mexican communities.
In the fall of 1948 one of tlie main and immediate objectives of the
Mexican sections in Denver, inclduing the West Side Branch, was to
establish and develop a committee to organize the Mexican people and
develop that into the National Association of Mexican-Americans.

Mr. Arens. Was there an organization formed called the National
Association of Mexican- Americans ?

Mr. Duran. In the year 1949, in the spring of 1949, the organi-
zation was established.

Mr. Arens. How many members did the National Association of
Mexican- Americans have ?

Mr, Duran. In a report given by the national president, nationally
it had cajoled 7,500 people ; locally 750 people reported by Al Sena,
who is also a Communist.

Mr. Arens. I don't quite comprehend. Would you please give me
those figures again for this record — the membership of the National
Association of Mexican- Americans ?

Mr. Duran. Nationally it Avas reported by the national president,
Alfredo C. Montoya, to be 7,500, and locally reported by the local
president, 750.

Mr. Arens. Was this organization controlled by the Communist
Party?

Mr. Duran. To my knowledge it was.

Mr. Arens. How many Communists actually controlled the organi-
zation of 7,500? Do I make myself clear? There were 7,500 people
in the organization controlled by the Communist Party, llow many
members of the Communist Party actually had their hands on the
steering wheel, actually running the organization?

Mr. Duran. I would say hard-steel Communists that would be any-
where from 10 to 20. There were others that were just developing
into a stage of hard-steel Communists.

Mr. Arens. In other words, 10 to 20 Communists were controlling
an organization of 7,500, is that correct?

Mr. Duran. Yes.

4130 COMMUlSriST activities IX THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens, Now can you tell us what this organization did to fur-
ther the objectives and aims of the Communist conspiracy in this
area ?

Mr, DuRAN. The National Association of Mexican-Americans was
an organization created by the Communist Party leaders to be national
in form and socialistic in content. It was to utilize the aspirations of
the Mexican people in order to develop the tactics of the Communist
Party. An example of the theoretical distribution is the treaty be-
tween Mexico and the United States, the Guadalupe-Hidalgo Treaty.
In the National Mexican Commission the decision was to reopen this
treaty and give it new form and new content, to try to guarantee the
rights of the Mexican people, but at the same time explain to the
Mexican people that that in itself was not the solution because it was
still a patchwork within the capitalistic society.

Mr. Arens. All this was Communist Party line enunciated by the
National Association of Mexican- Americans, is that correct ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes. In the hnal stage we had to get across to the
people that socialism was the real answer, and not modification of
the treaty itself.

Mr. Arexs. ^-V^iat post did you hold in the organization?

Mr. DuRAN. The National Association of Mexican-Americans?

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.

Mr. Duran. First I went is as a member. Later I held the position
of East Side branch chairman. That was disorganized and put into
a citywide organization, and then I was the cultural director for the
State of Colorado. At last I was the political leader of the organiza-
tion.

Mr. Arexs. Did you also hold a post within the West Side Mexican
Branch of the Communist Party ?

Mr. DuRAx. In the reorganization of 1949 I was made educational
director of the West Side Mexican Branch.

Mr. Arexs. Can you give us just a word about the echelon of com-
mand pursuant to which the Communist conspiracy would send its
orders and directives into the National Association of Mexican-
Americans ?

Mr. DuRAX^, Nationally or locally?

Mr. Arexs. Either way.

Mr. DuRAx. Nationall}^ in my experience the most basic example
was when the National Mexican Commission of the Communist Party
met in Los Angeles, Calif., in the fall of 1950. The national leader
of the Mexican commission, Art Bary, its president, Anna Bary

TheCnAiRMAx. B-a-r-y?

Mr. DuRAx. That is the way I spell it.

The Chairmax. He wasn't a Mexican, was he ?

Mr. DuRAx. Absolutely not.

The Chairmax. All right.

Mr. DuRAx. And Anna Bary, another member of the national
Mexican commission. Frances Flores Lynn.

Mr. Arexs. Were you on this national commission ?

Mr. DuRAx. I am getting to that point. Art Flores from Arizona,
and Joe DiSanti from New ^Mexico. A Negro man from Los Angeles
by the name of Alexander. Another Negro man by the name of Bill
Taylor, and myself. Alfredo Montoya

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4131

Mr. Akens. Is this record clear that you were on the National Com-
mission of the Communist Party to control Mexicans ? Is that correct ?

Mr. DuRAN. No, sir. I was a special delegate to the commission
elected by our end,

Mr. Arens. Let us get the name of the commission again first,
please, sir.

Mr. DuRAN. It was the National Mexican Commission of the Com-
munist Party.

Mr. Arens. Did you participate in sessions with the commission?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Were these sessions open only to comrades of the Com-
munist conspiracy ?

Mr. DuRAN. Open only to comrades who were invited to that com-
mission, who were assigned to that work.

Mr. Arens. So these people whose names you have just given us
were known by you to be members of the Communist conspiracy, is
that correct ?

Mr. Duran. I didn't know Alexander and Bill Taylor other than
at that meeting.

Mr. Arens. But that meeting itself was open only to comrades, is
that correct ?

Mr. Duran. That is true.

Mr. Arens. Therefore, if they were in that meeting you knew them
as comrades?

Mr. Duran. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. May I ask a question at this point? Does the Na-
tional Mexican Commission of the Communist Party have branches
throughout the United States ?

Mr. Duran. No. The way it was reported there by Art Bary was
that the National Committee of the Communist Party, through its
report at the Colorado convention — ^iven at the national conven-
tion— had to set up this national commission to overlook all the Mexi-
can work in the Southwest of the United States. However, there was
a Colorado Mexican Commission of the Colorado Communist Party
later.

The Chairman. Did this group participate in any way in bringing
a great many Mexicans unlawfully into the United States?

Mr. Duran. The policy in dealing with the international people
who came across the river was not to try to stop them, but condemning
the American Government as well as the American employers for
letting them come across, and specifically, the American Government
for letting them come across when the employers could exploit them.

The Chairman. All right.

Mr. Arens. I am a little fearful we may be imposing on your physi-
cal endurance.

Mr. Duran. No; I am all right. "Will you continue with your
questions.

Mr. Arens. Continue the chronology of your career in the Commu-
nist Party.

Mr. Duran. Ihad just finished on Alfredo Montoy a. At a National
Mexican Commission meeting Alfredo Montoya received a directive
from the National Mexican Commission of the Communist Party of
what should be in the ANMA convention alinement.

79079— 68— pt 1 6

4132 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. ANMA is the national Mexican organization ?

Mr. DuRAN. Which was to be held immediately following the com-
mission's meeting. There Alfredo Montoya at this commission meet-
ing participated as the secretary, and Frances Flores Lynn, also a
member of the ANMA, participated as chairman and made notes and
were taken to the convention of ANMA and were fought for and some
of these policies were passed at the ANMA convention.

The orientation we received there, specifically I, was that we were
supposed to support and back Alfredo Montoya for national presi-
dent of the organization. That is the answer to how some of the
party's policies got into ANIVIA. Locally the party policy got into
ANMA through the Mexican section, through Alfonso Sena, through
Shirley Bramhall, through Morris Wright, through Jeannette Stern,
and Rose Sena and myself, under the directorship of Martha Correa.

Mr. Arens. Do you identify each of the persons whom you have
just named as persons who to your certain knowledge were members
of the Communist Party ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes; those who gave us the directive to the Mexican
section at special meetings or secret schools were Art Bary and Anna
Bary, and more consistently Martha Correa.

Mr. Arens. How do you spell Correa ?

Mr. DuRAN. C-o-r-r-e-a.

Mr. Arens. Have you finished ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Did you have occasion during your career in the Com-
munist Party to attend Communist Party training schools?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Tell us about them, please, sir. Where were they held?
When were they held? Tell us the names of the principal leaders.

Mr. DuRAN. In the year 1949 a 2-day and 2-night school, strictly
Communist, was lield at the Ute Eanch. The chairman of that school
was Maia James Scherrer.

Mr. Arens. Will you spell that name, please ?

Mr. DuRAN. Maia, M-a-i-a, James, Scherrer, S-c-h-e-r-r-e-r is the
way I spell it.

Mr. Arens. Is that person a man or a woman ?

Mr. DuRAN. A woman.

Mr. Arens. Do you identify her as a person known to you to have
been a member of the Communist Party ?

Mr. DuRAN. Maia James Scherrer is a person I identified in the
Communist trial in the Federal court in Denver.

Mr. Arens. As a member of the Communist Party ?

Mr. DuRAN. As a member of the Communist Party and leader of
the Communist Party.

Mr. Arens. All right, sir.

Mr. DuRAN. At that school the main thing that transacted there
was divorcing the members from accepting the elected American Gov-
ernment, to be the vanguard here rejecting that and accepting the
Communist Party as the vanguard of the people attending there.

Mr. Arens. Can you give us a list of the names of the principal
people there?

Mr. DuRAN. At that school the second main thing that was devel-
oped Avas that the Communists are special people, not just merely
another citizen in the community, but are leaders of the vanguard

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4133

who do not have the responsibility to pick up a gun and go shooting
on the street, but are in relationship to the public what a general staff
in the army is to the army. That is what the Communist Party van-
guard is to the working class. That was put across there. The people
that I recall attending there were the chairman, Maia James Scherrer,
political leader Art Bary, Robert Trujillo, a Negro by the name of
Jackson, Anna Bary, Martha Correa, Tim Correa, Flora Besson.

Mr. Arens. How do you spell Besson ?

Mr. DuRAN. B-e-s-s-o-n. Susie Clute, C-1-u-t-e. Antonio Rod-
riguez.

mr. Arens. Do you here and now identify each of the persons you
have just named as persons who to your certain knowledge were mem-
bers of the Communist Party ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. Paul Kleinbord ; there were others; I can't recall right offliand.

Mr. Arens. Paul Kleinbord you identify now as a person who to
your certain knowledge was a member of the Communist Party; is
that correct ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Did you attend any other Communist Party school ?

Mr. Duran. In 1950, in the fall of 1950, at the same place, the Ute
Ranch immediately after tlie Korean war broke out.

Mr. Arens. That is the U-t-e Ranch ?

Mr. Duran. The U-t-e- Ranch ; yes.

Mr. Arens. In Idaho Springs, Colo., or that vicinity?

Mr. Duran. It is west of Idaho Springs, Colo.

Mr. Arens. Proceed, if you please, sir.

Mr. Duran. In the latter part of 1950 the Communist Party in
Colorado took a position on the Korean war and the Stockholm Peace
Petition. This school was organized at tlie Ute Ranch to give the
members the line that the party wanted put into practice.

There the American Government got condemned as being imperial-
istic and aggressive government, and we were to work against that.
One of the avenues to work against the Government was through the
Stockholm Peace Petition, to embarrass the Government and at the
same time join the Soviet Peace Camp.

Mr. Arens. Who was in attendance at this school in 1950 at the Ute
Ranch?

Mr. Duran. In attendance were Art Bary, Anna Bary, Martha
Correa, Tim Correa. There were approximately 18 people. I can't
recall exactly who they were at this time.

Mr. Arens. Was there another Communist Party school you at-
tended during your career in that conspiracy?

Mr. Duran. Between the time of 1950 and

Mr. Arens. Do you want to rest a little while?

Mr. Duran. No, sir. I am quite all right.

Between the period of 1950 and 1951, March of 1951, there was
continuous and disorganized education within the given groups and
sections. In March of 1951 the National Education Commission of
the Communist Party, in New York, to^^ether with Art Bary and
Prof. Alberto Moreau, organized the National Mexican cadre school,
which was held in Los Angeles, Calif. There in attendance were the
ideological teacher. Prof. Alberto Moreau from the Jefferson School
in New York City, and Art Bary, the political teacher.

4134 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us the names of people who were in at-
tendance at the school ?

(Representative Velde left the hearing room.)

Mr. DuRAN. In attendance at this National School from California
were Frances Flores Lynn, the Communist Party leader of Los Ange-
les, the new labor leader in the Los Angeles area, Ralph Quadron, and
a Mexican youth by the name of Munz, M-u-n-z.

Mr. Arens. Do you recall his first name?

Mr. DuRAN. I do not. I am sorry. From the New Mexico area were
Mr. and Mrs. Zipriano Montoya, officials of the International Union
of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers

Mr. Arens. Could you spell those names for us, please?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes, sir; Zipriano, Z-i-p-r-i-a-n-o ; Montoya, M-o-n-
t-o-y-a.

From Silver City, N. Mex., also a member of the International Union
of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers, Antonio and Mariana

Mr. Arens. Antonio is A-n-t o n i o?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes.

Mr. Arens. And Mariana?

Mr. Duran. M-a-r-i-a-n-a. I am sorry, I forgot the last name.
From El Paso, Tex., was Augustine Strada, S-t-r-a-d-a. From Colo-
rado were Ysidro Alvarez, Y-s-i-d-r-o A-1-v-a-r-e-z. Martha Correa,
and myself?

I would like to go back to Los Angeles on the steelworkers in the
Los Angeles area. A man by the name of Larry Alverez and Ida
Alverez, his wife.

Mr. Arens. Could you spell that for us ?

Mr. Duran. Last name ? A-1-v-e-r-e-z.

Do you want the contents of the school ?

Mr. Arens. Have you completed the membership in the school?

Mr. Duran. To the best of my recollection at this time.

Mr. Arens. Was the school open only to comrades of the Commu-
nist Party?

Mr. Duran. The school was organized to where some of the Com-
munists in the Communist Party didn't even know about it. It was
only the selected cadre who would come under the special cadre policy
adopted at the national Communist convention.

Mr. Arens. Do you here and now identify each person whom you
have just named as a person who to your certain knowledge was a
member of the Communist Party ?

Mr. Duran. Yes.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, this might be
an appropriate time for a short recess.

The Chairman. Yes. We will recess for 5 minutes.

(Brief recess.)

The Chairman. The committee will be in order.

Proceed, Mr. Arens.

Mr. Arens. May I invite your attention to the general area that
we were discussing prior to the recess, namely. Communist Party
schools which you had an opportunity to attend and report about
to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Is there another school which
you attended and, if so, please tell us where and when and who were
in attendance?

COMMtTNTIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4135

Mr. DuRAN. In 1951 a secret but well-organized Communist Party
school was held at the YMCA or YAVCA in Estes Park, Colo.
It was a 2-week session. The teacher was Art Bary, both politically
and ideologically. His helper was Harold Zepelin. Present at the
school were Art Bary, Harold Zepelin, Tim Correa, Alfredo Trujillo.

Mr. Arens. Will you spell that last name for us, please, sir?

Mr. DuRAN. Alfredo, A-1-f-r-e-d-o, Trujillo, T-r-u-j-i-1-l-o, and his
wife, Julie Blau Trujillo.

Richard Demming, Clarence Slater, Alphonso and Rose Sena,
S-e-n-a, Newell Sells, N-e-w-e-1-1 S-e-1-l-s, Ed McMullen, and my
wife and I.

Mr. Arens. Do you here and now identify each person you have just
named as a person who to your certain knowledge is a member of the
Communist Party?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes.

Mr. xIrens. Was there another school which you attended?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Kindly tell us when and where and who were in
attendance.

Mr. DuRAN. The school of 1952, organized and held at Evergreen,
Colo. The teachers there primarily were Art Bary, and on United
States imperialism, Anna Bary. The teacher who was supposed
to talk on labor, David Eakins, did not show up. He was scheduled
at this school. Present at this school were Art Barry, his wife Anna
Bary, Shirley Bramhall, also known as Billie Wellinger, Ann Eakins,
Dorothy Aspinwall, Jesus Sauceda and his wife, Judith Sauceda.

An official or member of the International Union of Mine, Mill and
Smelter Workers by the name of Lorenzo Torres.

Mr. Arens. Spell both names, please.

Mr. DuRAN. I would spell the first one L-o-r-e-n-z-o Torres,
T-o-r-r-e-s. And his wife. I do not know her first name — from the
Bayard chapter of Mine. Mill and Smelter Workers. And my wife
and I. That is all I recall at this time, sir.

Mr. Arens. Are there any other Communist Party training schools
which you attended during your career in the party ?

Mr. DuRAN. During the period that I was in the Communist Party
there was what you call a news type of education for the leadership
where we met in Denver Park in different houses where we would
try to refresh our memory from what we had studied. We followed
the same guide. We would study the same subjects and try to put them
into practice in discussing and also evaluating the development of
each Communist cadre.

Mr. Arens. Before we get into any other organizational activities
or undertake to name persons whom you knew as members of the
Communist Party and other entities of the apparatus, could you tell
us the activities of the Communist Party in this area during your
membership? By activities I mean the dynamics of its program,
what did it do aside from having its meetings and enlisting and dis-
ciplining the comrades.

Mr. DuRAN. When I first entered the Communist Party on the
Mexican West Side Branch one of the basic understandings which
was given to us there was that religion and communism did not go
together. We had to have a basic understanding and willingness and
determination that there would come a time where we had to give

4136 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

our lives for the party and we had to be ready for that. The activity
that developed from that was merely to bring about the two require-
ments of a revolution. The activities in the Communist front were
directed to create the two requirements which were: One, economic
crisis and, two, political crisis. The activity of the Communist Party
working within the Mexican community was to agitate the aspira-
tions of the Mexican people in this spontaneous stampede to show
the Government was not willing to accept them and it was because
capitalism had entered a decadent stage and was now entering a
Fascist stage and there was no place for the Mexican people in the
capitalist society. Therefore, the answer, for the Mexican people's
problems would be a new society, the overthrow of capitalism, and
the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat.

Mr. Arens. What was the position of the Communist Party on
public issues such as on immigration and your Mexican border prob-
lems?

Mr. DuRAN. On the immigration question the Communist Party
policy was that it was a good issue to get into, a good popular front,
and a good way to fight the Federal Government. The entire tactic
was to divide the people from the Government and fighting the Gov-
ernment, setting the Government against the people and the people
against the Government.

Mr. Arens. What was the position of the Communist Party on the
Walter-McCarran Immigration and Nationality Act?

Mr. DuRAN. The Communist Party policy on the Walter-McCarran
Act was that it was a Fascist measure and also a good measure which
could be utilized as an issue to get popular support.

Mr. Arens. In the course of your career in the Communist Party
did you ever come in contact with Pettis Perry or Abner Green of
the American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born ?

Mr. Duran. Abner Green came to Denver on the deportation case
of a man from a Chicago labor union by the name of Martinez, and
he was asking support for that within the organization. I met Pettis
Perry when he was working on the peace question and also the national
Mexican question.

Mr. Arens. Abner Green is a hard-core Communist, is he not?

Mr. Duran. I do not know him as that.

Mr. Arens. He was associated with the American Committee for
Protection of Foreign Born, was he not ?

Mr. Duran. He was with the Committee for Protection of Foreign
Born, yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. What did the Communist Party do here from the stand-
point of undertaking to enlist sympathizers, dupes, and do-gooders,
people whom they could control in other organizations ?

Mr. Duran. The tactic that was employed by the Communist Party
to cajole innocent people as well as friends of the Communist Party,
was to use the united-front tactic, compromising the struggle that they
were fighting for by the issues of communism, to go in, for example,
and fight for wage increases for the beet workers. The orientation of
the Communist Party wasn't worried whether we won or lost the wage
increase. It was primarily concerned to make the acquaintance of
these workers and establish a Communist Party cell there. Likewise,
on the other struggles, rent control, police brutality, and fighting the
Un-American House Committee.

coMJvrcnsriST activities ix the rocky mountain area 4137

Mr. Arens. You mean the House Committee on Un-xVmerican Ac-
tivities, this committee here?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes. Anytliing that they could win people over.
They Avould use as a tactic in some cases to try to get a prejudgment on
the case. This entire philosophy of communism is that they have no
respect for American system, the courts, the Congress, the Senate, the
FBI, or any other organization that maintains American society.
These were to be destroyed and an entirely new system established.

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Duran, you have been at the heart of the Communist
conspiracy in this area from 1948 to 1955 and have known the principal
operators in this area in the Communist conspiracy. As a patriotic
American who has served his country in that capacity in reporting to
the Federal Bureau of Investigation, what appraisal can you give this
committee and the American people respecting the menace of the
Communist Party in this area ? Is it just a few crackpots or is it a
serious menace to the integrity of this State and Nation ?

Mr. DuRAX. In applying what I have learned I would say that the
American people and the American Government are in worse trouble
today than at any one time. The Communists have learned to master
their tactics and have learned to popularize them. They have learned
to penetrate every form of organization in existence — the Government,
the unions, strategic economic points. They have learned to set politi-
cians against each other during a political crisis. Throughout the
world as well as here they are tr3'ing to create an economic crisis. In
essence, I Avould say that the two prerequisites of the Communist
revolution are further developed than at any one time.

The local Communists are no longer working only on issues; thej^
are fighting hand in glove from ISIoscow down to here. I can see it
very plainly, I wish I could explain it thoroughly. My opinion is
that there is more danger now than at any other time.

Mr. Arens. Because there might have been some confusion in the
recitation you gave on these schools and other activities, may I read
some names to you and see whether you can identify some of these
people. If you have already identified them, actually, tell us so.

Virgil Akeson.

Mr. DuRAN. Virgil Akeson attended a county Communist Party
meeting in the spring of 1951 at the house of Bill Deitrich. Also at
the residence of Virgil Akeson, 1124 Victor Street, Aurora, one of the
overt acts in the Smith Act trial — a meeting was held in his house in
1952. He participated on that State committee meeting which de-
veloped the entire discussion around dialectical materialism.

Mr. Arens. Virgil Akeson, as we have announced to the press, is
under subpena for appearance tomorrow before this committee. Do
you here and now in this open session under oath identify Virgil
Akeson as a person who to your certain knowledge was a member of
the Communist conspiracy ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes, sir ; I do.

Mr. Arens. Will you be here tomorrow in case he wants to look
you in the face ?

Mr. DuR^vN. Yes, sir. I would be glad to.

Mr. Arens. Anthony Morton. He also is under subpena for ap-
pearance tomorrow. Do you know or have you known Anthony
Morton ?

Mr. Dtjran. Anthony Morton — may I tell you how I know him?

4138 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. Yes.

]\Ir. DuRAN. Anthony Morton was one of the special trained Negroes
assigned by the National Committee of the Communist Party to come
to Denver and penetrate the Negro community and win a certain
leadership there. At the meeting of January 1951 Art Bary reported
that this Negro would be coming here and also a Colorado Negro
Commission would be established. The Negro who came here was
Anthony Morton. He was identified by Art Bary to me as an espe-
cially trained Negro who would penetrate the Negro community in
Denver.

Mr. Arens. Do you here and now^ identify Anthony Morton as a
person who to your certain knowledge was a member of the Commu-
nist Party ?

Mr. DuRAisr. Yes, sir ; I do. Later Anthony Morton was established
as head of the Negro commission. He was also put into the State
committee as the special representative of the Negro people.

Mr. Arens. Bernard W. Stern. Did you know him as a Commu-
nist?

Mr. DuRAN". I had pretty thorough discussions with him but I never
attended a closed Communist Party meeting with him.

Mr, Arens. Morris Wright.

Mr. DuRAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Alfredo Montoya, M-o-n-t-o-y-a. Did you know him
as a Communist?

Mr. DuRAN. You asked me on Morris Wright. Do you want to
follow that up ?

Mr. Arens. Just give us the highlights of your knowledge which
convinces you that he was a member of the Communist conspiracy.

Mr. DuRAN. Morris Wright was discussed in the Mexican section
for doing Mexican work in ANMA by Martha Correa, Anna Bary,
Jesus Sauceda, and Alfredo Montoya, whether he should be trans-
ferred to the Mexican section or be left in the professional section.
There was a report that Morris Wright wanted to come into tlie Mexi-
can section, that he felt it was necessary for him to get the political
orientation directly from the Mexican section instead of indirectly
from his section.

Mr. Arens. Do you identify him as a person who to your certain
knowledge was a member of the Communist conspiracy ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Harold Meier.

Mr. DuRAN. Harold Meier at the time I met him was a professor
at the Colorado University. He attended the same meetings that
Virgil Akeson attended at the house of Bill Deitrich in 1951.

Mr. Arens. Was that a closed Communist Party meeting ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Do you identify Harold Meier as a person who to your
certain knowledge was a member of the Communist conspiracy ?

Mr. Duran. Yes. He substituted for Prof. William Gladstone.

Mr. Arens. Richard Aspinwall.

Mr. Duran. Richard Aspinwall was a member of the labor com-
mittee established by the Colorado Communist Committee.

Mr. Arens. Do you identify Richard Aspinwall as a person who
to your certain knowledge was a member of the Communist Party?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4139

Mr. DuRAN. I do. May I interrupt there on Alfredo Montoya ?
Mr. Arens. Yee.

Mr. DuRAN. Alfredo Montoya was one of the outstanding Mexi-
can Communists, a member of the National Mexican Commission of
the Communist Party, and in 1952 when the national office of ANMA
was moved to Denver he had direct contact with Art Bary and Anna
Bary to get directives for the organization.
Mr. Arens. lludolph Cook.

Mr. DuRAN. Eudolph Cook attended the Communist Party meeting
at 1421 Mariposa.
Mr. Arens. When?
Mr. Ddran. In 1952 or 1953.
Mr. Arens. Was that a closed party meeting?
Mr. Duran. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Do you identify him here and now as a person who to
your certain knowledge was a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Duran. Yes, sir ; I do.
Mr. Arens. Arnold Berkens.

Mr. Duran. Arnold Berkens was the secret carrier for Art Bary
and Anna Bary and was a member of the Communist Party's West
Side Jewish section.
Mr. Arens. Irving Blau.

Mr. DuR.AN. Irving Blau in the early stages in 1949 attended party

meetings where the directive came from Al Goldberg and Art Bary.

Mr. Arens. Do you here and now identify Irving Blau as a person

who to your certain knowledge was a member of the Communist Party ?

Mr. Duran. I do.

Mr. Arens. David Bramhall, B-r-a-m-h-a-1-1.

Mr. Duran. David Bramhall was one of the leaders of the labor
committee and also attended the county committee meetings of the
Communist Party, at the same time as Harold Meier and Virgil Akeson
at Bill Dietrich's house.

Mr. Arens. Do you here and now identify David Bramhall as a
person who to your certain knowledge was a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Duran. I do.
Mr. Arens. Shirley Bramhall.

Mr. Duran. Shirley Bramhall was the instrument of the Commu-
nist Party put into the Mexican work to assure the Communist line
and avoid deviation, and so on.

Mr. Arens. Do you without equivocation identify Shirley Bram-
hall as a Communist ?

Mr. Duran. Yes, sir ; I do. Skipping some of the lower positions
she held, in 1954 Shirley Bramhall, William Gladstone, and Harold
Zepelin met at my house and they would not allow anybody else to sit
in because they were the top leadership in this region. Shirley Bram-
hall was in there with a manila envelope full of money.

Mr. Arens. Martha Correa you have already identified as a Com-
munist, have you not?
Mr. Duran. She is a Communist Party leader ; yes.
Mr. Arens. You have identified her in connection with a number
of these Communist Party closed schools; is that correct?
Mr. Duran. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. Eichard Demming, D-e-m-m-i-n-g.

4140 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. DuRAN. Richard Demming was a member of the Communist
labor committee. He was a student at the Estes Park secret school.
He is the man who straightened Art Bary on his economic teachings
at that school.

Mr. Akens. Do you identify him here and now as a member of
the Communist Party ?

Mr. DuRAN. I do.

Mr. Arens. David Eakins.

Mr. DuRAN, Dave Eakins, when he left at Eighth and Mariposa
in 1952, participated in a meeting with Alfonso Sena, Art Bary,
and myself. He substituted for one of the people who was supposed
to sliow up — Art Flores, from Arizona.

Mr. Arens. Was that a closed Communist Party session ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Do you here and now identify David Eakins as a person
who to your certain knowledge is a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. Duran. I do.

Mr. Arens. Ann Eakins. I assume that is David's wife?

Mr. Duran. I have already identified Ann Eakins in the Evergreen
School, and I identify her again as a Communist.

Mr, Arens. Jesus Sauceda.

Mr. Duran. Jesus Sauceda was a student, him and his wife, Judy,
at the Evergreen School in 1952. Jesus Sauceda, when I was expelled,
was one of the instruments that expelled me, for refusing to lie for
the Communist Party. At that time he was cliairman of the Mexican
section of Denver.

Mr. Arens. Do you identify him here and now as a member of the
Communist Party?

Mr. Duran. I do.

]\Ir. Velde. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire. You have identified a
number of Mexicans as members of the Communist Party. Can you
tell me how many of those are aliens and how many are citizens ? Do
you have any knowledge of that ?

Mr. DuR.\N. One of the persons I identified as attending the Los
Angeles school, being a Communist and being a noncitizen, was Ysidro
Alvarez.

Mr. Arens. You might spell that name for the Congressman.

Mr. Duran. Y-s-i-d-r-o A-1-v-a-r-e-z. There were others that had
become citizens of the United States.

Mr. Arens. You mean by naturalization?

Mr. Duran. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Judy Sauceda. I have difficulty pronouncing these
names, as is quite evident.

Mr. Duran. Judy Sauceda is the wife of Jesus Sauceda and at-
tended the Evergreen School and also is one of the leading Anglo-
Snxon persons of the Communist Party doing Mexican work.

Mr. Arens. Alfonso Sena.

Mr. Duran. Alfonso Sena was the chairman of the Mexican section
in the latter part of 1949 and the early part of 1950, when I was in
the hospital. Later on he became a group captain. In 1950 at the
State convention of the Communist Party in Colorado he became
a State committeeman. When they reorganized into three systems,
he became a secret member of the State board, with Anthony Morton
and Plarold Zepelin.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4141

Mr. Arens. State board of the Communist Party?

Mr. DuRAN. State board of the Communist Party, yes.

Mr. Arens. Fred Trujillo, T-r-u-j-i-1-l-o. I believe you have al-
luded to him but let us make sure that the record is clear.

Mr. Di'RAN. Alfredo Trujillo ^yas a member of the Communist
Party of Denver before he went to Pueblo, Colo. In Pueblo, Colo., he
took the leadership away from Maia James and Joe Scherrer. He was
also a member of the Colorado Mexican Commission of the Commun-
ist Party.

The Chairman. I would like to ask a question.

Has the National Mexican Commission of the Communist Party a
tie with a Communist organization in Mexico?

Mr. DuRAN. To my knowled^^e, sir, there was theoretically a very
basic connection there. Art Bary and Anna Bary in the years 1951
and 1952 went on a vacation to Mexico, but knowing the Communists
are never inactive I am pretty sure there was some contact. Later
there were reports of some of the famous INlexican artists that they
met. Communist artists in Mexico, such as Diego Rivera and others.
I would say the orientation that was given at different times definitely
gave the impression that there was a Communist tie between the Mexi-
can work and the iMexican M'ork in Mexico.

l^Ir. Arens. JSlr. Chairman, there is one area in which we could
question him and it would take but a few minutes to cover it.

Would you care to express yourself to the committee respecting
security measures which the Communist conspiracy took during your
career in the party?

Mr. DuRAN. In 1948 Avhen I entered the Mexican West Side Branch
of the Communist Party we were told that no longer would the
Communist Party issue membership cards, and that was for security
reasons. At all times if we were arrested or questioned we were to
deny that we were Communist and at no time were we at liberty to ad-
mit Conununist membership.

In 1951, prior to the National Mexican Commission meeting of the
Communist Party, Anna Bary also stressed again that no Communist
can admit at any time that he is a Communist.

In general the security that the Communists took was to investigate
all the membership whether or not they had any relatives in the
Federal Government or local government or newspapers or radio-
Approximately in 1951 when the top leadership went underground
the system was established to where any messages they wanted deliv-
ered to the top leadership would be taken to the house of Richard
Demming, and Richard Demming in turn would take it to Arnold
Berkens, and Arnold Berkens would take it to another carrier outside
the city, and that carrier would carry it to where the individuals were
at.

In going to meetings we were to make absolutely sure we were not
followed by any FBI or newspaper man or any unauthorized person
or anybody who did not belong to the group. The memb?rs of one
group were not to walk together. The meetings that \vere held were to
be organized only in certain houses where not too many meetings were
held before.

A complete inspection would be made of the house and, if necessary,
names were changed to code names. In our section the membership
at first took on numbers, Nos. 1 to 15. "When you paid your dues and

4142 COMMXTNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

got literature you gave a number, no name. At the State convention
Anna Bary and Maia James Scherer gave out names such as Bill,
Steve, Elizabeth, which were not the original names of those wearing
it on the lapel,

Mr. Arens. '\'Vliat was your Communist Party name ?

Mr. DuRAN. My party name at this State convention was Steve,
given to me by Anna Bary. At Estes Park it was Jose Komero. We
took a telephone book and just picked a name there. In the Evergreen
school I was Gamboa, G-a-m-b-o-a. In the general correspondence
between the top leadership and myself, they wrote to me as either
Steve or Gamboa.

The other security precautions that were taken were that we were
to travel an entire night around Denver before going to a State com-
mittee meeting. One night we started at 7 and we arrived early in the
morning at 1124 Victor, which should not have taken us over 45 min-
utes. We went to every street and checked everything, and then we
went to the viaduct and went down on the viaduct and there was a car
wating for us there.

Other security measures tliat are taken are to change the language
of the party, such as comrade, and use reverend or doctor, and not to
use the party language itself in discussing the activities.

In reference to the Communist Party and the meeting at 1124 the
Communist Party was called the Dodgers, meaning the Brooklyn
Dodgers. This was established as a code. The organization we
were in was called the basketball team. Other names were given to
other organizations. Frankly, it is silly.

The Chairman. The nickname for the dodgers would probably
have been very appropriate.

Mr. Arens. Are there any other security measures which were
taken by the party?

Mr. DuRAN. Other items were to check the most basic and political
security measures of the Communists, then and I assume now, to
check the activity and background of every family. If one does not
follow the party line they definitely expose you into being something
else.

Mr. Arens. How about the isolation of one cell from another?

Mr. DuRAN. The organization of the national committee's plan on
the three systems started in 1948. That was to organize every section
and group into three to avoid the Government's proving Communist
membership. The Government of the United States needed 2 wit-
nesses to prove the Communist membership of anybody. The groups
are organized into three and that cannot be done. It breaks the Gov-
ernment's drive against communism.

Mr. Arens. Did the members of one cell have information as to
the membership of other cells or was the identity kept secret?

Mr. DuRAN. The new members didn't know who was Communist or
not, but the old members had a pretty good conception of who was
and who wasn't.

Mr. Arens. Does the Communist Party of the United States advo-
cate overthrow of this Government by force and violence ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes, sirj it does. We were told at the Estes Park
School that the bourgeoise would not give up what it has very easily,
and the only thing the Communist Party feared was the mobility of
American fiiiance and the mobility of American military. The struc-

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4143

ture of the boiirgeoise instiiimentality had to be destroyed and a
new one established. That meant that we had to arouse the people to
throw them out and we would take over — I mean "we" quoting the
Communists.

The destruction of the Army and the Navy, the destruction of the
FBI, the destruction of various civilian organizations and basically
the destruction of the Government. That is why today you have no
respect from the Communists for any Government body or the FBI.

Mr. Velde. You mentioned a while ago in discussing the security
measures taken that if you were arrested or subpenaed you were not
to reveal your Communist Party connection. Did the party give you
any instructions with regard to the retention of legal counsel in case
you were arrested or subpenaed ?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes, sir; in 1951 there was a complete orientation on
this. First, prior to that we were supposed to contact Attorney Sam-
uel Menin. There was a conflict there. Later we were supposed to
contact Kenneth N. Kripke, attorney-at-law.

Mr. Velde. I didn't get the last name.

Mr. DuRAN. Kenneth N. Kripke.

Mr. Arens. You are not identifying Samuel Menin as a Communist,
are you ?

Mr. DuRAN. No ; I am identifying Kripke as a Communist, though.

The Chairman. Any questions.

The committee will stand adjourned, to meet tomorrow morning
at 10 o'clock.

(^^^lereupon, at 4 : 50 p. m., May 15, 1956, the committee was re-
cessed, to reconvene at 10 a. m. the following day, Wednesday, May
16, 1956.)

INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA— Part 1

WEDNESDAY, MAY 16, 1956

United States House of Kepresentati\t:s,

Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,

Denver^ Colo.

rUBLIC HEARING

A siibcoinmittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities recon-
vened, pursuant to recess, at 10 a. m., in the courtroom of the United
States Court of Appeals, Tenth Circuit, Post Office Building, Hon.
Francis E. Walter (chairman) presiding.

Committee members present: Representatives Francis E. Walter,
of PeiHisylvania, and Harold H. Velde, of Illinois.

Stalf members present: Richard Arens, director; Courtney E.
Owens, and W. Jackson Jones, investigators.

The Chairman. The committee will be in order.

Call your first witness, Mr. Arens.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Duran, will you kindly resume the stand, please.

TESTIMONY OF BELIARMINO JOE DURAN— Resumed

Mr. Arens. Before we proceed interrogating you, Mr. Duran, about
the specifics of membership of cer-tain people in commissions and
conventions of the Communist Party, I invite your attention to an
attack against yourself which appears in the morning paper with re-
spect to your income while you were serving as an undercover agent
of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Have you seen that article?

Mr. Duran. 1 have seen pai't of it. I didn't read it all.

Mr. Arens. While you were serving as an undercover a^ent for the
Federal Bureau of Investigation, did you receive from the agency any
money other than expense money?

Mr. Duran. No.

Mr. Arens. Was the arrangement between you and the Federal
Bureau of Investigation of a highly confidential nature so that you
could not, in the interest of serving your country, disclose the relation-
ship which you had with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and
your service in the Communist Party?

Mr. Duran. I know of a person working in the welfare council that
was also a leader of ANMA and therefore my relationship with the
FBI had to be confidential to the last point.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Duran, may I invite your attention to this general
area of inquiry : First, the State conventions of the Communist Party

4145

4146 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

of Colorado. I should like to ask you what conventions you attended,
where, and who were the principal participants.

Mr. DuRAN. The State convention of the Communist Party of
Colorado, the latter part of 1950 at 4501 West 7th Avenue, Denver,
is the only State convention of the Communist Party that I attended.
The chairman of that State convention of the Communist Party, who
was used as State chairman, was Alfonso Sena.

Mr. Arens. Would you spell that last name ?

Mr. DuRAN. S-e-n-a. The person who told him what to do and
when to do it was Harold Zepelin. Present from Boulder, Colo., were
Prof. William Gladstone, Newell Sells, a student, and Jack Fink,
student.

From Pueblo, Colo., was Warren Fortson, an FBI undercover
agent in the Communist Party.

Mr. Arens. How did you know that?

Mr. DuRAN. I learned that after the last Smith Act trial. Alfredo
Trujillo, and Maia James Scherrer. There was one other person, but
I can't recall who it was. From the Denver area there were Art Bary,
Anna Bary, secretary to the State convention, and Martha Correa,
Kenneth N. Kripke, attorney at law, Denver, Alfonso Sena, Eose
Sena, Beverly and Mike Rose, now in New York City. I can't recall
the others at this time, sir.

Mr. Arens. Did you attend any other State conventions of the Com-
munist Party concerning which you have first-hand information?

Mr. DuRAN. Not conventions. I attended State committee meet-
ings, not conventions in themselves.

Mr. Arens. Can you give us just a brief summary of the State com-
mittee meetings and who the principal participants were?

Mr. DuRAN. A State committee meeting, in early 1951, where Art
and Anna Bary reported the doings of the national convention of
the Communist Party in New York City, was held at the residence of
Richard Demming, 1421 Mariposa.

Present there were Martha Correa, Tim Correa, Art Bary, Anna
Bary, and myself. There were two people there that I have reported
on, but I don't recall them at this time.

The official State convention meeting was held at 4501 West 7th,
in a semibasement

Mr. Arens. 'Wlien in 1951 ?

Mr. DuRAN. Oh, approximately 2 weeks after the meeting at 1421
Mariposa Street. At this State convention the commissions for the
State of Colorado of the Communist Party were established. The
labor commission for industrial concentration was developed, and the
educational commission was also developed. The educational com-
mission consisted of three members, one Maia James Scherrer, and
Anna Bary and another person. On the labor commission, Richard
Demming, either Maia or Joe Scherrer from Pueblo. The State com-
mission for the Negro people w^as tabled until a special agent for the
Communist Party arrived, Anthony Morton. The Mexican commis-
sion was tabled for the fact that, quoting Anna Bary, the material
condition was not present. The women's commission was tabled for
the same reason as the last. The youth commission likewise.

At the Communist Party State convention meeting of 1952, spring
of 1952, at the 1124 Victor Street address, the residence of yir^il
Akeson, one of the overt acts in the Communist conspiracy trial in

COIVCMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4147

Denver, present were Anna aBry, official chairman, and taking over
the chairmanship of that meeting because of Anna Bary's report in
party dictation, Maia James Scherrer chaired that meeting. Present
were AntlTony Morton, Alfonso Sena, AVarren Fortson, Harold Zepe-
Ijn, Martha Correa. There was the entire State committee, witli the
addition of a few appointed State committee members, Martha Cor-
rea and Anthony Morton, and one of the missing appointees to the
State committee. Rose Sena.

I am missing two meetings of the State convention that I can't
clearly recall at this time, but that is the latest composition of the
Colorado State Committee of the Communist Party.

From the floor : I represent one of these witnesses, and I can't hear
the names that he gives. I would like to ask that he speak up a little
louder. If he would speak up louder I think we could hear these
names as they are called off.

Mr. Arens. As of what date was that ?

Mr. DuRAN. The last State committee meeting?

Mr. Arens. Yes.

Mr. DuRAN. In the spring of 1952.

Mr. Arens. Now may I invite your attention to an organization
known as the West Side Fair Play Committee and ask you what you
know about that organization.

Mr. DuRAN. The West Side Fair Play Committee was an organi-
zation which to my knowledge was started in sincerity of a mother
trying to defend her son against police brutality. The Communist
Party of Denver heard about it and entered the case. '\'\nien I heard
about it Virgil Akeson, of the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers Union
was active in it. Morris Wright was active in it, Alfredo Montoya, of
the Mine-Mill was active in it, Alfonso and Rose Sena were active,
and Jesus and Judith Sauceda were active in it. These people I have
identified before as members and leaders of the Communist Party.

In 1954-55 there was a meeting to disband ANMA. A Communist
Party meeting was called. Present at this meeting were Alfredo
Montoya, Martha Correa, xilfonso Sena, Morris Wright, and myself.
Immediately after that Harold Zepelin, early in 1954, instructed me as
member of the Communist Party to penetrate the West Side Fair Play
Committee and that I was released from my ANMA duties and there-
fore it would be my main responsibility directly to the party to develop
the juvenile delinquency issue and fight the police in the West Side
Fair Play Committee.

The directive from Harold Zepelin, and I quote him, was that it is
time that the members of the Communist Party start fig;hting other
individuals and organizations, and direct their fight against the gov-
ernment locally, either State or Federal. Our responsibility was to
fight the Denver Police Department as part of that tactic of fighting
the Government, to set the Denver Police Department against the
people and the people against the police department.

The activities of the West Side Fair Play Committee were outright
controlled and dictated by the Communist Party, and by that I mean
this : There were people there who wanted other activities other than
. just juvenile delinquency and fighting against the police. They didn't
want to fight against the police. The Communists in there were less
in number than the active people, but they would combine and bom-

79079— se—pt. 1 6

4148 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

bard tliese people with tlieir propaganda until they convinced them
that they should fight the police.

In Denver, Colo., a Communist by the name of Martha Correa wit-
nessed a policeman beating a Spanish-American man. I cannot tes-
tify whether he was in the wrong or not. 1 do not know the situation.
She raised it. This man said he was wrong, and he wanted to forget
about it. Later on the members of the Communist Party of Colorado
convinced this man to sue Officer Burke, of the Denver Police Depart-
ment for $45,000. This was continuously agitated to divide the people
from their local government and specifically within the police de-
partment. That is the general activity of the West Side Fair Play
Committee.

Mr. Arens. Now may I invite vour attention to another area of
inquiry and ask you if you will first of all identify the production,
Salt of the Earth?

Mr. DuRAN. To my direct knowledge Salt of the Earth represents
more than it appears to represent.

Mr. Arens. What is Salt of the Earth?

Mr. DuRAN. Salt of the Earth is a moving picture that was made
from the strike of Local 890 of the Mine, Mill and Smelter AVorkers
in the Ravnrd area of New Mexico, and the outstanding person in
that role, Mariana Ramirez, was a student at the Los Angeles School
for National Cadres. She is the one woman who took tlie strike away
from the men ni^d turned it into a women's picket line. From Denver,
Colo., Morris W^right was assigned to go there and give a socialist
content to the thing.

Mr. Arens. Identify Morris Wright.

Mr. Duran. Morris Wright, if I have not identified him before in
the record, I do now as a member of the ('ommunist Party. Later
when the picture came out and came to the Denver area Morris Wright
took responsibility of hiring a place to show the picture. Snlt of the
Earth. In the Communist Party the analj^sis of Salt of the Earth
was that it was a popularized way to get to the masses the class
struggle. There was more to it, but that was the main essence of it,
that you could get across the class struggle through pictures like Salt
of the Earth.

Mr. Arens. Will you give us, if you please, Mr. Duran, a little
further identification of Janet Stern, S-t-e-r-n.

Mr. Duran. Janet Stern, the wife of Bernard W. Stern, official
of Mine-Mill, was a Communist member of the Mexican section of
Denver, Colo. She was also an active secretary of the West Side
Fair Plaj Committee. She Avas one who would influence the chair-
man's orientations and board decisions.

Mr. Arens. Paul Kleinbord. Just a little further identification of
him, please, sir.

Mr. Duran. Paul Kleinbord was a student at the Communist Party
sessions at the Ute Ranch in 1949. He also was the captain of a group
studying Marxism and the national question at the B & E Chicken Inn
in Denver in 1949. In 1949 he was also one who would give directives
to Jane Rogers to give to the East Side Mexican Branch.

Mr. Arens. A1 Hilliard, H-i-1-l-i-a-r-d.

Mr. Duran. A1 Hilliard, from Denver, was a member of the Mexi-
can Section assigned by the State board to aid the Mexican work at

COMlVrCJNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4149

the same time that Shirley Bramhall, Patricia Bramhall, and Kenneth
N. Kripke were asi<inecl as special a<rents.

Mr. Ahens. Katherine Bardwall, B-a-r-d-w-a-1-1.

Mr. DuKAN. Katherine Bardwall, an office employee of Mine-lVfill,
was a member of the Communist Party. She attended the meeting
of the first Negro commission at 1421 Mariposa Street, which Anthony
Morton chaired.

Mr. Arexs. Joey Gonzales.

Mr. DuRAN. Joey Gonzales in the latter part of 1951 rejected for
security reasons and suspected surveillance of FBI to meet with Art
Bary. He said it was insecure and he would not do it; he had his
place and that he would stick to it.

Afr. Arens. Did you know him as a Communist ?

Mr. DuRAN. I knew^ him then because he criticized very severely
some of the Denver members approaching him to go to Communist
meetings. He said he had his place and it had to come through there
and that is all.

Mr. Arens. Do you know where he is located; in what city?

Mr. DuRAN. Yes ; in El Paso, Tex.

Mr. Arens. ^Mrs. John Loumis, L-o-u-m-i-s.

Mr. Duran. Yes; from Salt Lake City.

Mr. Arens. Identify her, please.

;Mr. Duran. ]\Irs. John Loumis from Salt Lake City gave me a re-
port that she was running a restaurant for the Communist Party in
Salt Lake City and she had come to Denver to turn the money in. ^Irs.
John Loumis turned the money in to ^lartha Correa or Anna Bary.
I asked her was it at least a thousand dollars and she said quite a bit
more than that. I said how come the restaurant was run for the
pai'ty instead of her own, and she said that was none of my business,
that is the way it was arranced. She said there were others like that.

Mr. Arens. Vincent Vigil. IIoav do you spell that last name?

Mr. Dtjran. V-i-g-i-1.

Mr. Arens. Where is he located and what do you known about him?

Mr. Duran. The last time I could find out about where he was,
he was in Eraser, Colo. Vincent Vigil was a member of the Com-
munist Party. He attended West Side ^lexican Branch meetings once
or twice, I don't recall the date but at the meeting held at 3360 Hum-
boldt Street in Denver, the restaurant of Betty Correa, he reported
extensively there to me his trip, that Art Bary and Vince Craig from
Taos, N. Mex., were extremely chauvinistic, that he was going out of
the party, that they had a meeting and threw him out without hearing
his side at all, that Craig should be expelled from the party as well as
Art Bary.

Mr. Arens. Just in passing, when you say they threw him out with-
out any hearing, was there any democratic procedure within the Com-
munist operation that you could observe?

Mr. Duran. No, sir. In fact, in 1951 we had a report that the Com-
munist Party had entered a revolutionary stage and it would operate
with less democracy. It was read from the Communist Party of the
Soviet Union.

Mr. Arens. Is there any other item of information respecting the
Communist apparatus in the area here which we have not interrogated
you about and which you would like to bring to the attention of the
committee?

4150 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. DuRAN. I wanted to hit on two specific points of the thing that
we were developing then and have developed into reality now. That
was to use religion and to attack the Government witness as attacking
the Government from the bottom up. I think it was very self-evident
that the statement that came out from the press cannot be backed up
by facts. I have facts.

Mr. Arens. That concludes the staff interrogation of this witness,
Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. Any questions?

Mr. Velde. No, none except that I would like to congratulate you,
Mr. Duran, on your very fine testimony and the very fine work you did
for your country during the time you served as an undercover agent
for the FBI.

The Chairman. Mr. Duran, you are excused with the thanks of this
committee and of the Congress of the American people. You have
made a fine contribution. I am sure that those who have heard you are
thoroughlj^ convinced of the integrity and the honesty and sincereity
of the position you have taken and of your testimony.

You are excused from the subpena, Mr. Duran.

Call your next witness.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Virgil Akeson.

Mr. Akeson, please remain standing while the chairman administers
an oath to you.

The Chairman. Do you swear that the testimony you are about
to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?

Mr. Akeson. I do.

TESTIMONY OP VIRGIL AKESON; ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,

NATHAN WITT

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.

Mr. Akeson. Virgil Akeson, 951 Lowell Boulevard.

Mr, Arens. Would it be convenient for you to raise your voice a
little bit?

Mr. Akeson. I am employed by the International Union of Mine,
Mill, and Smelter Workers.

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today in response to a subpena
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American
Activities?

Mr. Akeson. Yes; I am.

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. Akeson. I am.

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.

Mr. Witt. Nathan Witt, post office box 156, New York 23, N. Y.

Mr. Arens. What is your employment, please, Mr., Akeson, with the
International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers ?

Mr. Akeson. I am a secretary.

Mr. Arens. Employed where?

Mr. Akeson. At the national office.

Mr. Arens. "Wliere?

Mr. Akeson. 412 Tabor Building.

Mr. Abens. In Denver?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4151

Mr. Akeson. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens How long have you occupied that position?

Mr. Akeson. I have been here for 5 years.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Akeson, give us just a word of your personal back-
ground. Where were you born?

Mr. Akeson, I was born in Minnesota.

Mr. Arens Give us a word about your education, please, sir.

Mr. Akeson. High school, a graduate of high school.

Mr. Arens. When did you complete your high-school education?

Mr. Akeson. About 1925.

Mr. Arens. Did you pursue your education any further or did that
complete your formal education?

Mr. Akeson. Practically; yes.

Mr. Arens. Now tell us, if you please, in sequence the various em-
ployments which you have had since you completed your formal edu-
cation, with the exception of any menial jobs which a youngster might
have, such as an errand boy or anything of that character. Tell us any
of the principal employments which you have had since you completed
your education.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Akeson. I was employed for a short time by Oliver Mill &
Mining Co. in Duluth, Minn., when I came out of high school.

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of the employment?

Mr. Akeson. Front-office worker. And for a while I worked for
the Government in the Post Office Department.

Mr. Arens. Did that immediately succeed the employment which
you first recounted ?

Mr. Akeson. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Where did you work for the Post Office.

Mr. Akeson. In Washington, D. C.

Mr. Arens. Wlien was that ?

Mr. Akeson. That was in about 1927. Then I worked for a bit in
New York for the Standard Oil Co. as code clerk.

Mr. Arens. When was that, please ?

Mr. Akeson. That was in 1928, 1 think 1929. Then I went to farm-
ing for several years after that, until about 1940 I went back to Wash-
ington as a clerk in the Treasury Department.

Mr. Abens. Do you recall who got you the job in the Treasury?

Mr. Akeson. No. I just took an examination and was employed.
After the Government I worked for the union practically all the time
after that.

Mr. Arens. When did you conclude your service in the Govern-
ment?

Mr. Akeson. Oh, some time in 1941.

Mr. Arens. Were you then employed in the Treasury Depart-
ment?

Mr. Akeson. No, sir. I was employed in the War Department
at that time.

Mr. Arens. When did you move from the Treasury Department
into the War Department ?

Mr. Akeson. The end of 1940, some time like that.

Mr. Arens. In what capacity did you serve in the War Depart-
ment?

Mr. Akeson. As a secretary.

4152 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. To whom?

]\Ir. Akeson. Well, there "was a Captain Rogers of the Safety Divi-
sion.

Mr. Arens. Was the Safety Division within the Pentagon or within
the War Department at the time ?

Mr. Akeson. No. It was in a temporary building at the time.

Mr. Arens. Did that conclude your Government service with the
War Department in 1941 ?

Mr. Akeson. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Now tell us what your employment was as soon as you
concluded your employment with the AA^ar Department in 1941?
What was your next job ?

Ml". Akeson. My next job was with the Mine, Mill, and Smelter
Workers.

Mr. Arens. Where was that ?

Mr. Akeson. In Washington, in the legislative office — the Washing-
ton office.

Mr. Arens. AAHien was that ?

Mr. Akeson. That was at the beginning of 1942.

Mr. Arens. Who was your immediate superior ?

Mr. Akeson. Mr. Riskin.

Mr. Arens. His first name?

Mr. Akeson. Benjamin.

Mr. Arens. What was his post or assignment or office?

Mr. Akeson. He was at the time the research director.

Mr. Arens. AYho else was employed there in the Washington office
whose name comes to your mind ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Akeson. Mrs. Jessica Rhine.

Mr. Arens. How does she spell the last name ?

Mr. Akeson. R-h-i-n-e.

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Anyone else employed in the Washing-
ton office of the international ?

Mr. Akeson. No ; not at that time.

Mr. Arens. How long did you serve there in the Washington office
of the International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers?

Mr. Akeson. Oh, approximately until the end of 1956.

Ml-. Witt. He must have misspoken himself.

Mr. Akeson. 1946.

Mr. Arens. Did you occupy the same post all of the time until 1946 ?

]\Ir. Akeson. Yes. I maintained the office.

Mr. Arens. What were your duties ?

Mr. Akeson. They were various, most of the time just a secretary.

INIr. Arens. Were you in the legislative section ?

Mr. Akeson. It was the Washington office of the international
union.

Mr. Arens. Did the Washington office have as part of its operation
legislative duties?

Mr. Akepon. Yes.

Mr. Arens. To make representations to the Congress and its
committees?

Mr. Akeson. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Did you participate in that work ?

Mr. Akeson. Yes, sir.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4153

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us who your next boss or superior was after
Mr. Riskin?

Mr. Akeson. I think it was a gentleman by the name of E. D.
Church for a while. I was alone part of the time.

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ?

Mr. Akeson. I was alone there part of the time.

Mr. Arexs. Did JSIr. Church have a successor during your employ-
ment?

Mr. Akeson. Yes.

Mr. Arens. What was his name?

Mr. Akeson. Mr. Rasraussen.

Mr. Arens. His first name?

Mr. Akeson. Ralph.

Mr. Arens. Then do I understand you correctly that you were
transfen-ed or assigned from the Washington office out to the Denver
area ; is tliat correct ?

Mr. Akkson. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. What was your next assignment within the Interna-
tional Union of Mine, JNIill, and Smelter Workers after the conclusion
of your work in Washington in 1946?

Mr. Akeson. I was moved to Chicago, 111. — the national office.

Mr. Arens. In what capacity?

Mr. Akeson. General office worker.

Mv. Ahens. That was in 1946?

ISfr. Akeson. Wait a minute.

Mv. Arens. I don't want to confuse you. Did you go directly from
Washington to Chicago?

Mr. Akeson. Yes.

Mr. Arens. You have testified you were in Washington until 1946.

Mr. Akeson. I am not sure that is correct. It might have been in
January of 1946.

Mr. Arens. It is your best recollection it was either in 1946 or
1947; is that true?

Mr. Akeson. Yes.

Mr. Wrrr. May I advise the witness to wait until counsel finishes.
If counsel is talking you had better let him finish. Otherwise the re-
porter can't get it.

Mr. Arens. Wlio was your superior there?

Mr. Akeson. Frankly, I don't know.

Mr. Arens. Who was head of the office?

Mr. Akeson. I think it was the secretary to the treasurer.

Mr. Arens. Who was head of the office?

Mr. Akeson. I think Mr. Travis was head of it.

Mr. Arens. Maurice Travis?

Mr. Akeson. Yes.

Mr. Arf.ns. W\y<\t post did Mr. Travis occupy?

Mr. Akeson. lie was secretary-treasurer of the international.

ISIr. Arens. Did ^fr. Travis have any other associates there in the
office besides vourself in Chicago?

Mr. Akeson. We had quite a number on the staff; yes. I can't re-
member exactly how many.

JNIr. Arens. Can you name some of the other employees there?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

4154 COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOHNTTAIN AREA

Mr. Witt. May I advise the witness if he doesn't remember to say
he doesn't remember, but if he remembers, say so.

The Chairman. Just the best of your recollection.

Mr. Akeson. The best of my recollection of the staff at the time
was Mr. Sanderson, Mr. Stern, Mr. Wright. There were a number
of people

Mr. Arens. You say Mr. Stern was there ?

Mr. Akeson. Yes.

Mr. Arens. '\^niat was his full name?

Mr. Akeson. Bernard W. Stern.

Mr. Arens. And Mr, Sanderson; was that Harold C. Sanderson?

Mr. Akeson. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. He was employed there.

All right, sir; how long did you continue in your employment in
Chicago!

Mr. Akeson. Until the national office moved to Denver.

Mr. Arens. When was that ?

Mr. Akeson. The end of January 1951.

Mr. Arens. Then you have been in the Denver office ever since?

Mr. Akeson. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Now can you tell us who is in the Denver office?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Akeson. Mr. Sanderson, Mr. Stern, Mr. Dolan, Mrs. John-
son

Mr. Arens. By Dolan, you mean Graham Dolan?

Mr. Akeson. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Sanderson is Harold C. Sanderson, the same gentle-
man who was in Chicago?

Mr. Akeson. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. And Bernard W. Stern, the same man who was in
Chicago ?

Mr. Akeson. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Who is in charge of the Denver office ?

Mr. Akeson. Mr. Sanderson is the office manager.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Arens. What are your duties in the operation of the Denver
office?

Mr. Akeson. I am secretary to Mr. Sanderson.

Mr. Arens. By secretary do you mean you take shorthand and do
typing?

Mr. Akeson. Yes ; and various other things in the office.

Mr. Arens. Is there any employment of any consequence that you
haven't told us about?

Mr. Akeson. Nothing of any importance, of any length. As I re-
member, I worked for some kind of sheet-metal plant for a brief time
in about 1936, I think. Oh, then I did work for about 6 months out
in eastern Oregon for a game and bird refuge, biological survey, for
about 6 months. I had forgotten that.

ISIr. Arens. How many members are there in the International
Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Witt. If you know.

Mr. Akeson. I couldn't actually tell you.

COACMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4155

Mr. Arens. What is your best judgment, your best approximation
as to the membership? You have been in the organization for a
number of years.

Mr. Witt. But if you don't know, say you don't know.

Mr. Akesok. Frankly, I don't know.

Mr. Arens. Would it be as many as 25,000 ?

Mr. Witt. Counsel, he wouldn't be in a position to know accurately.
I would be glad to answer that question for you if you want me to, but
he wouldn't be in a position to know.

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Mrs. Dorothy
Funn, F-u-n-n ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Akeson. I will invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment
on that question.

The Chairman. By that you mean you will not answer the question ?

Mr. Akeson. I decline to answer the question.

The Chairman. All right.

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Dorothy Funn testified under oath before this
committee that she knew you as a member of the Communist con-
spiracy. Was she lying or was she telling the truth ?

Mr. Akeson. I will invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Mary Markward testified before this committee
under oath that she knew you as a member of the Communist con-
spiracy. Was she lying or was she telling the truth ?

Mr. Akeson. I will invoke my privilege on the same grounds, fifth
amendment.

Mr. Arens. Would you look over there up against the wall and see
the gentleman who just preceded you to the witness stand. Would
you please stand up, Mr. Duran? Do you recognize that man?

Mr. Akeson. I will have to invoke my privilege under the fifth
amendment on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Do you feel

The Chairman. Just a moment. You said "I will have to." You
are not under any compulsion.

Mr. Akeson. I do, yes, I do invoke my privilege.

Mr. Arens. This man who is standing there facing you testified
under oath before this committee in the course of the last day or so
and identified you as a person who to his certain knowledge was a
member of the Communist Party. Was he lying or was he telling the
truth?

Mr. Akeson. I will invoke my privilege on the same gi-ounds.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this com-
mittee whether or not you know the gentleman standing there you
would be supplying information which might be used against you in
a criminal proceeding?

Mr. Akeson. I will invoke my privilege.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be
ordered aiid directed to answer that last principal question.

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question, Mr.
Akeson.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Akeson. I have consulted my counsel on this score, and I un-
derstand that it is my privilege under the fifth amendment to decline
to answer that question.

4156 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. Do you understand the question which is pending?

Tlie Chairman. And you therefore do decline ?

Mr. Akeson. I do decline.

Mr. Arens. The question which is pending is with reference to
whether or not you honestly apprehend that if you answer these ques-
tions we are posing to you you might be supplying information which
might be used af^ainst you in a criminal proceeding. You understand
that is the question which you are declining to answer ?

Mr. Akeson. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Washington Com-
mittee for Democratic Action ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Akeson. I will claim the privilege to that question.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that you were a member of
the Washington Committee for Democratic Action. Are you now a
member of the Communist conspiracy?

Mr. Akeson. I will invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that you are a member of the Communist conspiracy and are
presently under Communist discipline.

Mr. Witt. He hasn't asked you a question.

Mr. Arens. I ask you to affirm or deny that assertion.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Akeson. I will claim the privilege on that question.

Mr. Arens. During the course of your employment by the Interna-
tional Union of Mill, Mine and Smelter Workers, have you performed
in your work at the instance and control of the Communist con-
spiracy ?

Mr. Akeson. I will invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment
and decline to answer that question.

Mr. Arens, Have you ever denied to the membership of the Inter-
national Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers that you are or
have been a member of the Communist conspiracy ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Akeson. I have never had occasion to be asked that question
as far as that is concerned.

Mr. Arens. You recognize now, do you not, Mr. Akeson, that you
are under oath, subject to the pains and penalties of perjury if you
lie to this committee. You recognize that fact, do you not?

Mr. Akeson. I do.

Mr. Arens. Do you intend to leave this committee room when you
are relieved from the pains and penalties of perjury, released from
your obligation of your oath, and tell the members of the press "Of
course I am not a Communist. I have never been a Communist"?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Akeson. My answer to that is that I do not believe that there
will be any occasion that any such thing will be brought up.

Mr. Arens. You have recited here the names of a number of your
collenffues and associates in the International Union of Mine, Mill
and Smelter Workers. Can you tell us whether or not to your certain
knowledge Bernard W. Stern is a member of the Communist con-
spiracy ?

Mr. Akeson. I claim the privilege and decline to answer that ques-
tion.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4157

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us whether or not to your certain knowl-
edge Harold C. Sanderson is a member of the Communist conspiracy?

Mr. Akeson. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us whether or not to your certain knowl-
edge Graham Dolan is a member of the Communist conspiracy?

Mr, Akeson. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us whether or not to your certain knowl-
edge Maurice Travis is a member of the Communist conspiracy?

Mr. Akeson. I will decline to answer that on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. "VVe have no further questions of this witness, Mr. Chair-
man.

The Chairman. Have you any questions?

Mr. Velde. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. The witness is excused.

I think we will take a 5-minute break at this time. The committee
will be in recess for 5 minutes.

(Brief recess.)

(Members of the committee present: Representatives Walter and
Velde.)

The Chairman. The committee will be in order.

Call your next witness.

Mr. Arens. Anthony Morton.

Remain standing while the chairman administers the oath to you,
please.

The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand? Do you swear
the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. Morton. I do.

TESTIMONY OP ANTHONY MORTON; ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
WENDELL A. PETERS

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and oc-
cupation.

Mr. Morton. My name is Anthony Morton. I live at 3435 Marion
Street, Denver, Colo. I work for the International Union of Mine,
Mill, and Smelter Workers.

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today in response to a subpena which
was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American Activ-
ities?

Mr. Morton. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. Morton. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself ?

Mr. Peters. Wendell A. Peters, 2130 Downing Street, Denver, Colo.

Mr. Arens. What is your job with the International Union of Mine,
Mill and Smelter Worliers?

Mr. Morton. I am in charge of the mailing list of the union paper
which comes out monthly and goes to the membership.

Mr. Arens. What is the name of the paper?

Mr. Morton. The Mine-Mill Union.

Mr. Arens. Wliere were you born ?

Mr. Morton. I was born in the South.

Mr. Arens. Where in the South, what State ?

4158 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. Mr. Counsel, could I say a word before I answer that
question ?

Mr. Arens. Can't you just tell us where you were born ?

The Chairman. Answer the question. AVhere were you born ?

Mr. Morton. I want to say I was born in the South.

Mr. Arens. What State were you born in in the South ?

Mr. Morton. I am not sure that I can tell you the status of the pos-
sible danger to myself.

The Chairman. All right, then. We will omit it. It doesn't make
any difference. Go ahead, Mr. Arens.

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you will, a brief sketch of the employments
which you have had since you reached adulthood.

Mr. Morton. I have worked on the railroad.

Mr. Arens. What railroad and when, please.

Mr. Morton. St. Louis Southwestern.

Mr. Arens. When ?

Mr. JMoRTON. Back in the twenties.

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ?

Mr. Morton. Extra gang, taking up 25-pound steel to the foot and
laying 95-pound steel to the foot.

Mr. Arens. How long did you occupy that job ?

Mr. ]MoRTON. I don't remember exactly, but I think it was 9 or
10 months on that particular job.

Mr. Arens. All right, your next job.

]Mr. Morton. Sawmill work in the South.

Mr. iVRENS. About how long did you have that job ?

Mr. Morton. This job was off and on between farm work and
seasonal work. I worked at a sawmill.

Mr. Arens. Your next job?

Mr. Morton. Various menial jobs.

Mr. Arens. All right, your next principal job ?

Mr. Morton. I never really had a principal job. The jobs were
mostly menial, you know from time to time, where I could get them.
Chauff'euring, waiting tables, portering, roofing companies.

Mr. Arens. That has been your principal occupation most of your
life, j ust odd jobs ?

]SIr. JNIoRTON. Odd jobs. I couldn't get hired on these other jobs.

]\Ir. Arens. How long have you been employed by the International
Union of Mine, INIill, and Smelter Workers ?

Mr. Morton. About 3 years.

Mr. Arens. Where has the location of your employment been?

Mr. Morton. At Tabor Building here in Denver.

Mr. Arens. The last 3 years ?

Mr. Morton. About 3 years. I went to work there in January
1954.

Mr. Arens. Where were you employed immediately prior to the
time that you were engaged here in Denver ?

Mr. Morton. You mean in Denver ?

Mr, Arens. No. '\^^lere were you employed prior to the time that
you became employed for the International Union of Mine, Mill, and
Smelter Workers ?

Mr. Morton. I M^asn't employed immediately prior to my being

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4159

Mr. Arens. Wliat was your last job prior to the job that you now
occupy ?

Mr. Morton. I was driving for the nursery school, chauffering, a
taxi service for a nursery school here in Denver.

Mr. Arens. What city did you live in prior to the time that you
moved to Denver ?

Mr. Morton. Brooklyn, N. Y.

Mr. Aens. How long did you live in Brooklyn ?

Mr. Morton. About 10 years.

Mr. Arens. "Was that immediately prior to the time that you came
to Denver ?

Mr. Morton. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Where did you live just prior to the time that you
were in Brooklyn ?

Mr. Morton. In Harlem.

Mr. Arens. How long did you live in Harlem ?

Mr. Morton. About 6 years, approximately. I am not giving an
exact figure because I don't remember it exactly.

Mr. Arens. How did you happen to get your job with the Inter-
national Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers out here in
Denver from New York, when you worked there in New York? Can
you help us on that ?

Mr. Morton. I didn't get the job from New York to here. I went
to that job as a replacement after my wife got injured, who worked
there prior to my employment.

Mr. Arens. What is your wife's name ?

Mr. Morton. Miriam.

Mr. Arens. What job did you have in Denver immediately prior to
the time that you were with the International Union of Mine, Mill,
and Smelter Workers ?

Mr. Morton. I was driving a taxi service for the Jewish schools,
delivering children to and from school here in Denver.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever lived in Chicago ?

Mr. Morton. Yes, I lived in Chicago.

Mr. Arens. When did you live in Chicago ?

Mr. Morton. I don't quite understand your question.

Mr. Arens. "Wlien did you live in Chicago ?

Mr. Morton. You mean when I first lived there or when I left
there ?

Mr. Arens. Wlien were the periods of your residency in Chicago ?
What years were you there ?

Mr. Morton. I was there from 1929 through around 1936.

Mr. Arens. Did you have just these menial jobs there in Chicago
during that period of time ?

Mr. Morton. That is right, washing dishes, wherever I could get
a job.

Mr. Arens. Is that the only period of time that you lived in
Chicago?

]\Ir. Morton. That is correct.

Mr. Arens. Tell us some of the extracurricular work in which you
were engaged while you were in Chicago up until 193G, wasn't it, that
you moved from Chicago ?

Mr. Morton. That I did what ?

Mr. Arens. In 1936 you moved from Chicago ?

4160 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Morton. To or from?

Mr. Arens. From Chicago.

Mr. Morton. That is right.

Mr. Arens. You moved from Chicago then to New York; is that
correct ?

Mr. Morton. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. What were some of the extracurricular activities that
you did in addition to the menial jobs which you had in Chicago up
until 1936?

Mr. Morton. I don't quite understand what you mean by extra-
curricular employment.

Mr. Morton. I still don't understand what you mean by on the side.

Mr. Arens. Did you belong to any organizations there in Chicago ?

Mr. Morton. What organizations ?

Mr. Arens. You tell me what organizations you might have be-
longed to in Chicago up until 1936, if you recall.

Mr. Morton. I can't answer that question unless you make it more
specific.

Mr. Arens. I have here a photostatic copy of a document, which I
will mark now "Morton Exhibit No." for identification. I will ask
you if this refreshes your recollection. You are Tony Morton. You
have been known as Tony Morton, have you not, all through your life ?

Mr. Morton. I gave my name as Anthony ISIorton.

Mr. Arens. Have you also been known as Tony Morton?

Mr. Morton. I am known by my name, which is Anthony Morton.

Mr. Arens. Have you also been known and called Tony Morton ?

Mr. Morton. I stick by the answer I just gave you.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness
be ordered and directed to answer that question as to whether or not
he has been known as Tony Morton.

The Chairman. Yes, you can answer that question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. Mr. Counselor, my answer to you is how other people
know me or address

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been called Tony Morton ?

Mr. Morton, I have never called myself Tony Morton.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been called ; I didn't say, "Do you call ?"
Have you been called Tony Morton ?

Mr. Morton. Well, perhaps people have called me Tony Morton.

Mr. Arens. Did you ever hear anybody call you that ?

Mr. Morton. Sure, I have heard people address me.

Mr. Arens. The answer is "Yes."

I would like to lay before you this Morton Exhibit 1, in response to
this area of inquiiy respectino; any outside activities you may have
had while you were in Chicago in 1936. It is a document of the Young
Communist League of America of 1937, describing a "Tony Morton,
Harlem division organizer, YCL, joined YCL in Chicago where he
was long active, a champion sprinter, knows how to mix hard work
with pleasure, speaks Russian quite well, likes to sing."

I ask you to look at that little article and see if that might refresh
your recollection or prompt your memory as to what might have been
some of your extracurricular activities in Chicago up until about
1936 or 1937 when you moved to New York. Maybe you can help us
on that.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4161

(The witness conferred ■with his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. Mr. Counselor, it is hard for me to determine whether
you are asking me a question or whether you are making a statement
to me and asking me to comment.

Mr. Arens. Just answer whether or not that prompts your recol-
lection, that little article I just laid before you, as to any activities
in which you ma}^ have been engaged in Chicago.

(The witness conferred wtih his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. It strikes me, puzzles me as to why this has anything
to do with the purpose of inquiry.

Mr. Arens. Well, answer the question anyhow. Just tell us whether
or not this document which I have just laid before you, excerpts from
which I have just read to you, does prompt your recollection as to any
activities of an extracurricular variety in which you may have been
engaged while you were in residence there in Chicago.

Mr. Morton. I still would like to know

The Chairman. Answer the question, please. We will determine
whether or not it is relevant.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. My answer to that is that it does not prompt any
recollection to my mind as to the pertinency of the question which you
ask.

Mr. Arens. Let's be a little more specific then. Perhaps I can
help you. This says, "Tony Morton, Harlem division organizer,
YCL, joined YCL in Chicago." You have told us that you have been
known as Tony Morton. Perhaps you can help us. Did you ever
join YCL in Chicago ? That is the Young Communist League, is it
not?

Mr. Morton. You tell me what it is.

Mr. Arens. Tell me whether or not you ever joined the Young Com-
munist League in Chicago.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. ISIoRTON. Mr. Counselor, I am going to invoke my privilege
under the fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United States
and refuse or decline to attempt to give an answer to this general
question.

The Cpiairman. It is not general. The specific question is, "Were
you a member of the Young Communist League?" That is the
specific question.

Mr. Morton. My answer under the privilege granted me under the
fifth amendment is that I decline respectfully to answer that question.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly feel if you told this committee whether
or not you were a member of the Young Communist League in Chi-
cago you would be giving information which might be used against you
in a criminal proceeding?

Mr. ^loRTON. I respectfuly decline under the privilege granted
me

Mr. Arens. Do you understand the question I just asked you?
Do you honestly in your heart believe that if you told this committee
whether or not you were a member of the Young Communist League
in Chicago you would be giving information which might be used
against you m a criminal proceeding?

Mr. Morton. My answer is that I decline for the reason I just
stated.

4162 COMMTJlSnST activities IN" THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Aeens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, lie be ordered
and directed to answer that last principal question.

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.

Mr. Morton. I will decline under the privilege granted me under
the fifth amendment of the Constitution.

Mr. Arens. Have you been a champion sprinter? Were you a
runner in your younger days?

Mr. Morton. I have been running all my life.

The Chairman. Literally and figuratively, is that what you mean ?

Mr. Arens. I just wonder if that might help us a little bit. We are
puzzled by this description here. Do you also speak Russian ?

Mr. Morton. I don^t understand the question.

Mr. Arens. Do you speak Russian ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. I would like to know the pertinence of the question.

The Chairman. Answer the question.

Mr. Morton. I decline for the reasons stated previously.

The Chairman. Proceed with the next question.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever seen this article which I just laid before
you?

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer that under the privilege of
the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Do you suppose you would recognize one of your pic-
tures ? I would like to mark this exhibit, if you please, Mr. Chairman,
"Morton Exhibit No. 2." It is entitled "Life Begins With Freedom,"
by Henry Winston, a pamphlet, 1937. It has a picture here of a person
titled "Tony Morton, former division organizer of the YCL in Harlem,
N. Y., and recently elected chairman of the Manhattan County organi-
zation." I would like to lay that docmnent before you and see if you
recognize that picture as anybody you have seen before.

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer that question, Mr. Counsel.

Mr. Arens. That is you, is it not, in that picture ?

Mr, Morton. I have stated that I will decline to answer that
question.

Mr. Arens. Wliy?

( The witness conferred with his counsel. )

Mr. Morton. On the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Arens. What grounds are those previously stated ? We had
better have this record clear.

Mr. Morton. The privilege granted me under the fifth amendment
of the Constitution of the United States.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you would tell this
committee under oath whether or not that photograph which I have
just laid before you is your photograph, you would be supplying infor-
mation which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding ?

Mr. Morton. I decline on tlie grounds previously stated. I should
say that it certainly doesn't look like me.

Mr. Arens. If it doesn't look like you, are you prepared to say this
is not your photograph ?

Mr. Morton. I decline to answer the question under the privilege
granted me under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Are you prepared now to say that this Tony Morton
described under this photograph was not yourself ?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4163

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer on the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that both of these
documents, Morton exhibits Nos. 1 and 2, be incorporated by reference
in this record.

The Chairman. Let them be incorporated.

Mr. Arens. I would like to lay before you another document which
I will mark "Morton Exhibit No. 3." This is a photostatic copy of
page 5 of the New York Daily Worker, Communist Daily Worker,
for Friday, February 11, 1938.

"Youth Groups Parade for Anti-lynch Bill Passage." That is
the heading of this article, in which is listed a number of youth who
are leading the processions. I invite your attention to this right here
[indicating], and ask if you would be kind enough and cooperative
enough with the committee to read that excerpt which is underlined
in the article and see if that might prompt your recollection a little
bit.

(The witness examined the document.)
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. Mr. Chairman, I will decline to comment on this
document.

Mr. Arens, This article describes a Tony Morton as chairman and
a James Barker, executive secretary, of the New York County Young
Communist League. Are you the Tony Morton referred to in that
article ?

Mr. Morton. I will decline to comment on that.

Mr. Arens. Did you know a man by the name of James Barker?

Mr. Morton. I decline to comment on the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Arens. What are those grounds ?

Mr. Morton. The privileges granted me under the fifth amendment
of the Constitution of the United States.

Mr. Arens. Wliat privileges? You mean not to testify against
yourself or to give evidence which could be used against you in a
criminal proceeding, do you not?

Mr. Morton. I have already stated the grounds.

Mr. Arens. Say it again. Do you honestly apprehend that if you
were to tell this committee whether or not this Tony Morton referred
to in the Daily Worker of New York, Friday, February 11, 1938, was
yourself, you would be supplying information which might be used
against you in a criminal proceeding ?

Mr. Morton. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, the witness be
ordered and directed to answer that question.

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.

Mr. Morton. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully decline to answer the
question on grounds previously stated.

The Chairman. All right.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully request, Mr. Chairman, that this docu-
ment, Morton exhibit No. 3, be incorporated by reference in this record.

The Chairman. It is so ordered.

Mr. Arens. I lay before you an article from the Communist Daily
Worker, February 12, 1938, with the heading, "Harlem CP To Give

79079— 6ft— pt. 1 7

4164 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Series on Negro Martyrs." Among the speakers is a person described
as "Tony Morton, chairman of the New York County, on Youth."
Was that you ?

Mr. Morton. I will decline to comment on grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Arens. Wliat grounds previously stated ?

Mr. Morton. I decline to comment on grounds previously stated.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness
be ordered either to answer the question or to assert his privilege
under the fifth amendment to the Constitution,

The Chairman. I think we can save time by having it understood
that when the witness declines to answer a question and states because
of the grounds previously stated, he means by that he declines to
answer the question because of the privilege granted him under the
fifth amendment of the Constitution. We can save time in that
manner.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that this document, article from
the Daily Worker of February 12, 1938, be incorporated by reference
in this record as Morton exhibit No. 4.

The Chairman. Mark it and incorporate it by reference.

Mr. Arens. "V^Hiile you were in New York did you engage in a mass
picket in May of 1947 ?

Mr. Morton. I will decline to comment on grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Arens. I have marked another document here "Morton Exhibit
5," for identification only. It is a photostatic copy of the Communist
Daily Worker of New York, Thursday, May 29, 1947, in which ap-
pears the article "Mass picketing lines under the auspices of the New
York State Committee of the Communist Party will demonstrate,"
and so forth. "The delegation will include a person, Anthony
Morton." Was that you they were talking about herein this article ?

Mr. Morton. I will decline to comment, Mr. Counsel, on the grounds
previously stated.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this com-
mittee whether or not you are the Anthony Morton alluded to in this
article in exhibit 5 you would be supplying information which could
be used against you in a criminal proceeding?

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and
directed to answer that question.

The Chairman. Answer the question. You are directed to answer
the question.

Mr. Morton. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully decline to answer the
question on the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Arens. I lay before j^ou a document which I have marked
"Morton Exhibit No. 6," which is a photostatic copy of page 3 of
the Communist Daily Worker of New York, Friday, April 4, 1947,
describing a number of Negro Communist Party leaders who issued
a warning to restore democratic sanity to American public affairs.

Did you ever participate in and issue such a statement?

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4165

Mr. Arens. Among the persons described in this article as Negro
Communist Party leaders is a person "Anthony Morton." Was that
you?

Mr. Morton. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Arexs. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, this document,
Morton exhibit No. 6, be incorporated by reference in this record.

The Chairman. It will be incorporated.

Mr. Arens. When you came to Denver what organizations did you
affiliate with here?

Mr. JMoRTON. I don't quite understand your question.

Mr. Arens. Did you join some organizations after you came to
Denver other than the organization for which you work?

Mr. Morton. I still don't understand what you mean by the organi-
zation.

]\Ir. Arens. Did you join or were you associated with the National
Association for the Advancement of Colored People ?

(The witness confered with his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. INIr. Chairman, I would like to know if that question
of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is
pertinent to the investigation.

Mr. Arens. The pertmency will be a matter for the committee to
determine. Did you join or become affiliated with the National Asso-
ciation for the Advancement of Colored People here in Denver ?

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer that question on the grounds
that I have previously stated.

The CiiAiRsiAN. Certainly you don't want to take the position that
to admit that you were a member of that organization, whose loyalty
has never been questioned, would in any wise subject you to the possi-
bility of a criminal prosecution.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. Mr. Chairman, my objection to the question or my
question

The Chairman. Never mind the objections. I am not concerned
with the reasons. I am asking you to answer the question. Did you
join the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People?

Mr. Morton. You mean I am ordered to answer that question ?

The Chairman. Yes ; you are directed to answer the question.

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer the question on the grounds
previously stated.

Mr. Arens. I lay before you a document which I have marked
"Morton Exhibit No. 7," for identification only. It is a photostatic
copy of an article appearing in a newspaper in the Denver area. I
shall read you an excerpt from the article.

The Denver branch president of the National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People has been ousted from office and expelled from the orjianization
for alleged Communist connections, a Denver attorney who led the expulsion said
Thursday. Thrown out of the local NAACP group at a Tuesday night meeting
in the Glenarm YMCA was Anthony Morton, an emploj'ee of the International
Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers in Denver, who was identified as a
Communist Party functionary,

and so forth.

Are you the Anthony Morton who was thrown out of the NAACP,
and the president of the branch here, because of Communist Party
affiliations ?

4166 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Morton". You are asking me ?

Mr. Arens. Yes ; I am asking you that question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. MoRTON". I will decline to answer that question, Mr. Counsel, on
the grounds that I have previously stated.

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of JVIildred Blauvelt,
B-1-a-u-v-e-l-t?

Mr. Morton. Mildred who ?

Mr. Arens. Blauvelt, B-1-a-u-v-e-l-t.

Mr. Morton. What about the person ?

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Mildred Blauvelt,
B-1-a-u-v-e-l-t?

Mr. Morton. I can't recall any such name, Mr. Counsel.

Mr. Arens. Did you know such a person in New York when you
were there ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. Mr. Chairman, I will decline to answer that question
on the grounds previously stated.

The Chairman. All right.

Mr. Arens. Mildred Blauvelt testified under oath before this com-
mittee that while she was an undercover agent for the Federal Bureau
of Investigation in the Communist conspiracy she knew a person by
the name of Anthony or Tony Morton, who is vice president of the
Brooklyn Communist Political Association, and that he was one time
organizer in the Bedford-Stuyvesant section and was also at one time
educational director of the Brooklyn Communist Party. Did you
occupy these posts and are you the person identified in this record
under oath as Anthony Morton or Tony Morton ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. Mr. Chairman, I am going respectfully to decline to
answer that question on grounds previously stated.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that while you were in Brooklyn, N. Y., you were one-time
educational director of the Brooklyn Communist Party.

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer on the previously stated
grounds.

Mr. Arens. Were you ever with the Brooklyn Cormnunist Political
Association?

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer under my privilege.

Mr. Arens. Was your job here in Denver, Colo., procured for you by
a person known by you to have been a member of the Communist
conspiracy ?

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer that question on grounds pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Arens. Would you mind looking over there? Mr. Duran,
would you please stand up ? Would you look at the man in the blue
suit over at the side of the courtroom there. Look at him well.

Mr. Morton. I already looked at him.

Mr. Arens. Look at him in his face.

Mr. Morton. I already looked at him in his face.

Mr. Arens. Wlien did you last see him?

Mr. Morton. Just now.

Mr. Arens. When did you last see him prior to that time?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES JN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4167

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer that question on grounds pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Arens. That man took an oath and said he knew you as a mem-
ber of the Communist conspiracy. Was he lying or was he telling
the truth?

Mr, IMoRTOx. I will decline to answer that question on grounds pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Arens. Wliat extracurricular activities do you carry on now
besides your job?

Mr. Morton. I don't understand what you mean by extracurricular.

Mr. Arens. What outside activities do you engage in besides just
working so hard at your job ?

Mr. Morton. I water my lawn.

Mr. Arens. Is there anything else you do on the outside ?

Mr. Morton. I don't understand what else you mean.

Mr. Arens. Are you active in any organizations of any kind, char-
acter, or description?

Mr. Morton. What kind of organizations?

Mr. Arens. You tell us in what kinds of organizations you might
be active.

Mr. Morton. Unless you can name the organizations, I can't give a
general answer.

Mr. Arens. Would it be a general answer to tell us in what organi-
zation you might be active ? Are you still active in the NAACP ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. Could I ask you what you mean by active, Mr.
Counsel ?

Mr. Arens. We will refine it to membership. Wliat organizations
are you a member of now.

Mr. Morton. If you can't tell me what organizations you mean.

Mr. Arens. You tell me.

The Chairman. Do you belong to the Elks Club ?

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer that question, Mr. Chairman,
on grounds previously stated.

The Chairman. You want us to believe that to admit that you are
a member of the Elks Club might subject you to criminal prosecution;
is that it?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. I would like to know before I attempt to answer that
question whether the Elks Club has any connection with the inves-
tigation.

The Chairman. You answer my question. Are you a member of
the Elks Club?

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer that question on ground previ-
ously stated, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. All right.

Mr. Morton. Respectfully.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest the record be clear that he be
ordered to answer the question.

The Chairman. Yes; you are directed to answer the question.

Mr. Morton. I will decline respectfully on grounds previously
stated.

The Chairman. Proceed.

4168 coMMiJisnsT activities est the rocky mountain area

Mr. Arens. How many people are on the mailing list that you send
this paper to every month or so.

Mr. Morton. I really don't know.

Mr. Arens. Who is the editor of this publication?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Morton. The editor is — his name is Albert Pezzati.

Mr. Arens. Do you know where he is now ?

Mr. Morton. I wouldn't be knowing ; no, sir.

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he is hiding from this
committee ?

Mr. Morton. I wouldn't be knowing that, either.

Mr. Arens. We thought maybe you might be knowing.

Who brought you out here ?

Mr. Morton. Out where ?

Mr. Arens. Out to Denver from New York. Did you just come
out here because you thought you would like it out here ?

Mr. Morton. I took a train and a bus.

Mr. Arens. ^Yho told you to come out here ?

Mr. Morton. Who told me to come out here?

]Mr. Arens. Yes.

Mr. Morton. I don't quite understand that question.

Mr. Arens. Did anybody tell you to come out here to Denver when
you were in New York ?

Mr. Morton. Will you kindly explain how you mean, tell me to come
out to Denver?

Mr. Arens. I think you understand the question. I am going to
ask the chairman to order you to answer that question or be in con-
tempt of this committee. Did anybody tell you to come out here to
Denver?

Mr. Morton. I will decline to answer that question.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, he be ordered
and directed to answer that question.

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.

Mr. Morton. ]\Ir. Chairman, I respectfully decline to answer on
grounds previously stated.

The Chairman. All right.

Mr. Arens. Were you sent out here by the Communist Party ?

Mr. Morton. I decline to answer that on grounds previously stated,
Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Arens. I believe we have covered that pretty well, Mr. Chair-
man.

The Chairman. Any questions ?

There are no further questions. The witness is excused from fur-
ther testimony under the subpena.

Call your next witness.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Graham Dolan, please.

The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand? Do you swear
the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. DoLAN. I do.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4169

TESTIMONY OP GRAHAM DOIAN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,

NATHAN WITT

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.

Mr. DoLAN. My name is Graham Dolan. I live at 3241 North 54th
Avenue. I am employed by the International Union of Mill, Mine,
and Smelter "Workers. I am on the staff of the newspaper of the
union called the Mine-Mill Union.

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing here today in response to a subpena
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American
Activities?

INIr. Dolan. I am.

Mr. Arens. "Will counsel kindly identify himself ?

Mr. "Witt. Nathan "Witt, "W-i-t-t, Post Office Box 156, New York,
N.Y.

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born ?

Mr. Dolan. I was born in Chicago, 111., August 8, 1908.

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about your education, please.

Mr. Dolan. Third year high school.

Mr. Arens. "When did you complete your education, if you recall
the year ? Around 1925 ?

Mr. Dolan. Around that. I don't remember the exact year.

Mr. Arens. Will you give us a brief sketch of the employments
which you have had since you completed your education in the neigh-
borhood of 1925 ?

Mr. Dolan. Almost all of my adult life I have been a newspaper-
man employed by various papers around the country. I worked on
a newspaper in Franklin Park, 111.

Mr. Arens. Excuse me. Are you taking this in chronological order ?

Mr. Dolaj^. As nearly as I can.

Mr. Arens. That is fine.

Mr. Dolan. I may not exactly.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Dolan. I worked on a newspaper in Franklin Park, 111., the
Maywood Daily News, in Maywood, 111., a newspaper in Champaign,
111., the name of which I forget at the moment.

I was employed by the Chicago Tribune for a period of 7 years.

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us about when that was ?

Mr. Dolan. I believe I left the Tribune somewhere in 1939 or 1940.
I am not sure of the exact date of that.

Mr. Arens. Was the disassociation from the Tribune voluntary ?

Mr. Dolan. It was not.

Mr. Arens. It was involuntary ?

Mr. Dolan. I was discharged by the Chicago Tribune for union
activity.

Mr. Velde. What type of writing did you do on the Chicago
Tribune ?

Mr. Dolan. I was not a reporter, Mr. Velde. I was a copy reader,
working on the copy desk for that newspaper, except for a short period
when I was night picture editor of the newspaper.

4170 COMMTJNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Velde. Then you never did any writing for the Chicago
Tribune?

Mr. DoLAN. Aside from rewrites of various descriptions when I
was on the telegraph desk or the cable desk or the Wisconsin desk or
the local desk. On many occasions I had to rewrite stories or edit
them to instructions of the various editors.

Mr. Velde. Were your duties the same at Maywood and Cham-
paign ?

Mr. DoLAN. For a period I covered sports. I covered a police beat
for several years. I wrote community news. Sometimes I was work-
ing on theater news or amusements, and so forth.

Mr. Areks. Could you tell us again the year in which you were dis-
charged from the Chicago Tribune?

Mr .DoLLAN. I believe it was 1940, Mr. Arens, but I am not certain.

Mr. Arens. Incidentallv, have you been popularly known as Cozy,
C-o-z-y?

Mr. DoLAN. It is a nickname.

Mr. Velde. May I inquire again about this discharge by the Chicago
Tribune. You say it was involuntary. They fired you.

Mr. DoLAN. Yes.

Mr. Velde. You described it as union activities.

Mr. DoLAx. It was, sir.

Mr. Velde. Do you have anything to show that that was the reason
for your discharge?

Mr. DoLAN. Yes. I filed charges with the National Labor Relations
Board and some time later the case was settled out of hearing. I left
the Tribune after receiving a sum of money as back pay for having
been discharged.

Mr. Velde. But there is nothing in the official record that shows
that you were discharged for union activities?

Mr. DoLAN. I think the files of the National Labor Relations Board
will show that I was fired for union activities; yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Was your present counsel at that time identified with
the National Labor Relations Board?

Mr. DoLAN. I believe he was secretary of the Board, Mr. Arens. I
am not certain of that.

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not your present counsel had
anything to do with the adjustment of your case when you were in-
voluntarily disassociated from the Chicago Tribune?

Mr. DoLAN. I haven't the faintest idea.

Mr. Witt. Counsel would be glad to answer that if you want me to.

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly give us your next employment after
the incident which we have just been recounting?

Mr. DoLAN. There was a period that I worked for the American
Guild of Variety Artists and also the American Communications
Association.

Mr. Arens. The American Communications Association? First of
all let's have the year of your activities in the American Guild of
Variety Artists.

Mr. DoLAN. I believe that was in 1940; so the Tribune discharge
might have been 1939, pinning it down now more accurately.

Mr. Arens. What did you do for the American Guild of Variety
Artists?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4171

Iklr. DoLAN. I was a sort of business agent to do what they called
policing tlie various niglitckib sliows and making sure they were liv-
ino- up to tlie regulations as stated in union contracts and so forth.
Sir. AuENS. Your next employment then?
Mr. DoLAN. The American Communications Association.
Mr. Ahexs. What years were you with the American Communica-
tions Association ?

Mr. DoLAN. I left them in 1941 ; I worked for them approximately
a year.

Mr. Arens. Wlio was head of ACA when you were with the Amer-
ican Communications Association?
Mr. DoLAN. I believe Joseph Selly was president of it then.
Mr. Akens. Your next employment?

Mr. DoLAN. The International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter
Workers.

Mr. Arens. That began about 1942; did it not? •

ISIr. DoLAN. It began in September of 1941.

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, the chronology of your various
assignments within the Mine-Mill, when you started, where you were,
and what jobs you had.

;Mr. DoLAN. I was hired as the editor of the union paper which at
that time was called the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers Edition of
the CIO News.

Mr. Arens. That was where, please?

Mr. DoLAN. It was in Denver, Colo., with the editorial offices in
Denver. The paper I believe was printed in Washington, D. C, along
with other editions of the CIO News.

Mr. Arens. Am I clear or are you suggesting that you have been
employed in Denver ever since 1941?
Mr. DoLAN. That is not true.
JSIr. Arens. Let's get the record straight there.
Mr. DoLAN. I was starting the chronology you asked for, sir.
Mr. Arens. Yes. I appreciate that. In 1941 you began as editor
of the Mine-Mill publication here in Denver?
Mr. DoLAN. Yes.

;Mr. Arens. Who was your boss? Wlio employed you?
Mr. DoLAN. Well, the first person who interviewed me was a gentle-
man named Gus Gonzales, who was the executive board member for
the Eastern Seaboard at that time. He is now dead. I believe he was
a casualty in World War II. When I was instructed to come to work
I received a telegram from the then secretary-treasurer of the union,
Mr. James Leary.

Mr. Arens. Go ahead, if you please, with the chronology.
Mr. DoLAN. I remained — there was a period when the papers
changed. We began to publish our own paper in the city of Denver
without the difficulty of trying to publish a paper by mail, and so
forth. We started a paper called The Union. I remained editor of
that until I went into the United States Navy in May of 1944. I
served in the United States Navy from May of 1944 until just before
Christmas Day in 104"). I did not return to the Mine, Mill, and
Smelter Workers until I believe December of 1947. I have been work-
ing with the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers ever since then in
various capacities, all of them having to do with editorial work of
one description or another.

4172 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. You have been educational director of the International
Mine, Mill, and Smelter AVorkers, have you not ?

Mr. DoLAN. Yes. That is the title I held for a "while.

Mr. Arens. You presently are the editor of the paper, is that cor-
rect ?

Mr. DoLAN. No, I am not the editor. I am on the staff.

Mr. Arens. What is the name of the paper?

Mr. DoLAN. The Mine-Iklill Union.

Mr. Arens. What is the circulation of the paper ?

Mr. DoLAN. The circulation theoretically is supposed to cover all
of the members of the union. There is always a gap in getting the
various local union mailing lists up to date and keeping it up to date.
I would say the circulation is somewhere around 50,000. That does
not cover the whole membership of the union, however.

Mr. Arens. What is the membership ?

Mr. DoLAN. I would estimate it to be somewhere between 90 and
100,000, although I am not certain. I don't have that figure.

The Chairman. Doesn't membership entitle a member to the
paper?

Mr. DoLAN. Yes, it does. The financial secretaries of the locals
forward the names of the members as quickly as they can and we
keep them on the mailing list.

Mr. Arens. Are you regarded as an official of the organization?
Do you have the status of an official ?

Air. DoLAN. I am afraid not. I am just a hired hand.

Mr. Arens. Who is the editor?

Mr. DoLAN. Mr. Albert Pezzati, the secretary-treasurer of the
union is the editor of the newspaper.

]\Ir. Arens. When did you last see him ?

Mr. DoLAN. I believe I saw him about a month ago, sir.

Mr. Arens. Do you happen to know where he is ?

Mr. Dolan. No, I am sorry. I haven't had occasion to get in touch
with him.

Mr. Arens. Do you mean to say you haven't been in touch with the
editor for a month ?

Mr. Dolan. No. I am his technical assistant and whenever any
questions of policy arise so I have to get in touch with him, I will
attempt to get in touch with him.

Mr. Arens. How often does this paper come out?

Mr. Dolan. Once a month, sir.

Mr. Arens. Haven't you any idea at all where he might be?

Mr. Dolan. The last time I talked to him I believe he was in
Chicago.

Mr. Arens. Was it at the office of the Mine, !Mill and Smleter
Workers in Chicago that you talked to him ?

Mr. Dolan. I don't know where he was when I talked to him.

Mr. Arens. Have you talked to him since the subpena was served
on you by this committee?

Mr. Dolan. I believe I already had a subpena when I talked to him ;
yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Did you happen to mention that to him in passing, or
in the course of the conversation ?

Mr. Dolan. There was no occasion. I was talking to him about
union business.

COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4173

Mr. Arens. The matter of the subpena didn't come up in the con-
versation at all, is that correct ?

Mr. DoLAN. I don't recall that it did.

Mr. Arens. At the time you talked to him on the telephone in
Chicago didn't you know the committee was looking for him?

Mr. DoLAN. I understood there was a subpena out for Mr. Pezzati,
yes.

Mr. Arens. Did you tell him so on the telephone?

Mr. DoLAN. I assumed he was aware of it. I didn't know.

Mr. Arens. Did you sign a Taft-Hartley affidavit?

Mr. DoLAN. No, sir; I did not.

Mr. Arens. You are not in that category ?

Mr. DoLAN. No, sir. I would like to consult my counsel a minute,
please, if I may.

Mr. Arens. Surely.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Kenneth Eckert?

Mr, DoLAN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the
privilege afforded me by the fifth amendment to the Constitution.

Mr. Arens. In December of 1955. Kenneth Eckert testified in the
United States District Court for the District of Colorado before Hon.
Jean S. Breitenstein, judge, under oath. He identified you as a per-
son who was a Communist. AVas Eckert lying or was he telling the
truth?

Mr. DoLAN. I will answer that question in this way : I am not now
a member of the Communist Party, but I shall refuse to answer any
questions in this category which deal with my past associations or
beliefs.

Mr. Arens. That is fine that you tell ns even that much. Are you
presently under Communist Party discipline?

Mr. DoLAN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the
fifth amendment privilege afforded me.

Mr. Arens. When you say you are not now a member of the Com-
munist Party, do you suggest that you have resigned membership in
the party ?

Mr. DoLAN. I would like to consult my counsel on this question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. D(iLAN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the
privilege afforded me by tlie fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. "Were you a member of the Communist Party a year ago ?

Mr. DoLAN. I believe I stated I was not going to answer any ques-
tions about my past associations or beliefs, and therefore I decline to
answer

Mr. Arens. Let's not talk about associations and beliefs.

Mr. DoLAN. May I finish. I decline to answ^er that question on the
grounds of the privilege afforded me.

The Chairman. On the grounds previously stated ?

Mr. DoLAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. A RENS. AVere you a member of the Communist Party yesterday ?

Mv. DoLAN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Arens. Did you resign technical membership in the Communist
Party in anticipation of your appearance before this committee here
today ?

4174 coMMimisT activities in the rocky mountain area

Mr. DoLAN, I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Arens. Are you presently taking orders from the Communist
conspiracy ?

Mr. DoLAN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Arens. "Were you at one time editor of Challenge ?

Mr. DoLAN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Arens. What is Challenge?

Mr. DoLAN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Arens. I am marking now a document "Dolan Exhibit No. 1,"
which is a photostatic copy of a page from a publication entitled
"Challenge," Sunday morning, March 24, 1946, "The only people's
newspaper in the Kocky Mountains, published weekly at Denver,
Colo." The editor of this publication is described as Graham Dolan.
I ask you to look at that and see if that refreshes your recollection as
to any employment or connection you may have had with that paper.

Mr. Dolan. I will decline to answer that question on the grounds
as previously stated.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this com-
mittee under oath whether or not you were ever editor of Chal-
lenge you would be supplying information which could be used against
you in a criminal proceeding ?

Mr. Dolan. I don't believe I have to explain my grounds for tak-
ing the fifth amendment, Mr. Arens.

Mr. Arens. INIr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the wit-
ness be ordered and directed to answer that question.

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.

Mr. Dolan. I decline to answer that question on the grounds as
previously stated.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that this docu-
ment be incorporated by reference in the record.

The Chairman. The document will be incorporated.

Mr. Arens. Now I mark a document "Dolan Exhibit No. 2," which
is a photostatic copy of the publication. Challenge, March 24, 1946,
containing a picture of a person described as Graham Dolan. I ask
you to look at that photostatic copy of the picture and tell us whether
or not that picture is a photograph of yourself.

Mr, Dolan. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.

]Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend if you gave the identifica-
tion of that photograph appearing in this document, which I just
laid before you, you would be supplying information which could be
used against you in a criminal proceeding?

]\Ir. Dolan. I am sorry, sir, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

Mr. Arens. That is all right, I am through with my question.

]Mr. Dolan. I don't believe I have to explain my reasons for tak-
ing the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. I am not askinc: for an explanation or reason. I am ask-
ing you whether or not you honestly apprehend that if you gave us a
truthful answer you would be supplying information which could be
used against you in a criminal proceeding.

COMlVrUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4175

Mr. DoLAN. I interpret tliat question that you are asking me for
giving my reason for taking the fifth amendment and I am declining
to answer that question en the grounds previously stated.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and
directed to answer the question.

The Chairman. Yes. He is not asking for your reasons. He is
asking whether or not you are apprehensive.

Mr. Doi^^N. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds,
sir.

Mr. Arens. Also, for a further reason, the question was asked to
ascertain whether or not your use of the fifth amendment is a per-
version of that amendment or whether or not it is invoked in good faith.
I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that this exhibit be incorporated
by reference in this record.

The CiiAiRiMAN. It is incorporated.

Mr. DoLAN. What was the last question ?

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been identified with the March of Labor?

jNIr. Witt. I am not sure the witness answered the question or
whether counsel

The Chairman. He just answered the question. Ask the next ques-
tion.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been identified with the March of Labor?

JNIr. DoLAN. Do you mean have I ever worked for the March of
Labor?

Mr. Arens. Yes, or have you ever written articles for the March of
Labor.

]\Ir. DoLAN. I believe I may have sent them releases from the Mine,
Mill and Smelter Workers from time to time in my duties as public
relations man.

Mr. x\rens. I lay before you a document which I have marked
"Dolan Exhibit No. 3" which is a reproduction of the April 1952, issue
of the March of Labor, bearing an article entitled "Senator Humbug,
by Graham Dolan," and ask you if you can tell us whether or not you
wrote that article?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Dolan. I wrote this article.

Mr. Arens. Which appeared in the March of Labor.

Mr. DoL.\N. Kight.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been identified with the Rocky Mountain
Foundation for a Free Press?

Mr. Dolan. I decline to answer that question on the grounds as
previously stated.

Mr. Arens. What is the Eocky Mountain Foundation for a Free
Press ?

Mr. Dolan. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds?

Mr. Arens. Is there an organization known as the Eocky Mountain
Foundation for a Free Press?

Mr. Dolan. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. While you have been editor of these various publica-
tions for the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers organization have you
taken directives and orders from the Communist conspiracy as to what
you should put in your publications?

Mr. Dolan. May I consult my counsel on that?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

4176 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. DoLAN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds as pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Arens. T lay before you a document which I have marked
"Dolan Exhibit No. 4," which is the original print of Challenge
and invite your attention to the last page of that document, "Rocky
Mountain Foundation for a Free Press, publishers of Challenge,"
in which appears the name "Graham Dolan, chairman," and ask you
if tliat Graham Dolan, chairman, is yourself.

Mr. Dolan. I decline to answer that question on the grounds as
previously stated.

Mr. Arens. Was Edward Scheunemann counsel to the Rocky Moun-
tain Foundation for a Free Press?

Mr. DoLAN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds as pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, Dolan exhibits
Nos. 3 and 4 be incorporated by referencein this record.

The Chairman. It is so ordered.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been identified with the International
Labor Defense ?

Mr. Dolan. I will decline to answer that question on the grounds as
previously stated.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that you were a member of the national committee of the
International Labor Defense, which is an arm or was an arm of the
Communist international conspiracy.

Mr. Dolan. I will decline on the same grounds, sir.

Mr. Arens. Did you ever know Louis Budenz?

Mr. Dolan. 1 decline to answer that question on the grounds as
previously stated.

Mr. Arens. Louis Budenz identified you as a hard core member of
the Communist conspiracy. AVas he lying or was he telling the truth?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Dolan. I decline to answer that question on the grounds as pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Arens. Were you identified some time back, some 4 or 5 years
ago, in Salt Lake City before a Senate subcommittee as a person
alleged to be a member of the Communist Party ?

]\Ir. Dolan. I decline to answer that question on the grounds as
previously stated.

Mr. Arens. Did you appear at any hearings of the Senate subcom-
mittee on Internal Security in Salt Lake City in 1952 ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Dolan. I decline to answer that question on the grounds as
previously stated.

Mr. Arens. In October of 1952 you were identified as a member of
the Communist conspiracy before the Senate Internal Security Sub-
committee in Salt Lake City. The record is clear on that. Has that
identification in any way hurt you in your employment with the In-
ternational Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers ?

Mr. Dolan. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Arens. In what mines in this Nation are persons employed
who are receiving this paper which you help write ?

Mr. Dolan. What mines?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4177

Mr. Arens. Yes.

Mr. DoLAN. There are many States, sir.

Mr. Arens. Give us the best description you can as to where the
membership is of the International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter
Workers.

Mr. DoLAN". You asked about mines. Most of the hard-rock mines
are located in the Rocky Mountains west and the various States of
the Rocky Mountains west — Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Arizona, New
Mexico, Colorado, Texas — I think Texas, I am not sure about the
mines there.

Mr. Arexs. Wlio is the current president of the International Union
of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers?

Mr. DoLAN. Mr. John Claik.

Mr. Akens. Is he a Communist ?

Mr. DoLAN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds as
previously stated.

Mv. Arens. Who is the next officer after John Clark ?

Mr. DoLAN. Vice president, Orville Larson

Mr. Arens. Just a moment. Is Orville Larson a member of the
Communist conspiracy ?

Mr. DoLAN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds as
previously stated.

Mr. Arens. And who is the next ranking officer ?

Mr. DoLAN. Asbury Howard, vice president of the union.

Mv. Arens. Is he a jneinber of the Communist conspiracy ?

Mr. DoLAN. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.

;Mr. Akens. And the next ranking officer?

Mr. DoEAN. Albert Pezzati, secretary-treasurer.

IMr. Arens. And is he a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. DoLAN. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Do you have the shop steward system in the Interna-
tional Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers?

Mr. DoLAN. In some places they call it a shop steward system.
Other places it is called a mine committeemen system. There is some
sort of system in almost all of our places.

Mr. Arens. How many shop stewai-ds are there in the Interna-
tional Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers?

;Mr. DoLAN. I haven't the faintest idea.

JNIr. Arens. Would there be as many as a thousand ?

Mr. DoLAN. I just have no way of estimating that, sir.

Mr. Arens. Are the sho]") stewards responsible to and do they
report to the leadership of the organization?

Mr. DoLAN. The leadership of what organization?

Mr. Arens. The International Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter
Workers.

Mr. DoLAN. They are responsible to the leadership of their local
unions.

Mr. Arens. Are the leaders of the local organizations responsible
to, and do they report to the members of the international?

Mr. DoLAN. Our local unions are autonomous organizations and
are responsible only to themselves, and as an affiliate of the Mine, Mill
and Smelter Worliers are required only to live up to the constitution
of the union.

Mr. Arens. Wliere is Maurice Travis at the present time ?

4178 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. DoLAN. I am sorry, but I couldn't tell you.

Mr. Akens. Is the International Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter
Workers certified by the National Labor Relations Board as a labor
organization within the meaning of the National Labor Relations Act?

Mr. DoLAN. Certainly.

Mr. Arens. Does it bargain with employers?

Mr. DoLAN. Pardon me, sir. I want to talk to my counsel.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. DoLAN. Mr. Counsel, I am advised by my counsel that the last
question was not legally correct, and I would like to withdraw my
answer to that question.

Mr. Arens. Which last question?

The Chairman. You correct it.

Mr. Wrrr. May I correct it. If I understood Mr. Arens' question,
it was whether the International Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter
Workers is certified as a labor organization. Well, there is no such
procedure under the National Labor Relations Act.

Mr. Arens. Is it certified as a bargaining agency?

Mr. Witt. Would you want me to answer that? Yes; it is certified
for different employers.

Mr. Arens. When was the last certification? Do you recall?

Mr. DoLAN. The last certification?

Mr. Arens. By the National Labor Relations Board of the Inter-
national Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter AVorkers.

Mr. Dolan. It is very difficult for me to answer that question. I just
don't know.

Mr. Arens. Has there been a certification in the course of the last
year ?

Mr. DoLAN. Yes; I assume there has. We have won National Labor
Relations Board elections, and I assume we have been certified on the
basis of those elections.

Mr. Arens. Have there been certifications since the Senate hearings
in October of 1052?

Mr. Dolan. INIost certainly there must be.

Mr. Arens. Is the International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter
Workers controlled by tlie Communist conspiracy?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. DoLAN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds previ-
ously stated.

Mr. Arens. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.

The CiiAiR:\rAN. No further questions. The witness is excused from
further attendance under this subpena.

Mr. Dolan. Thank you.

The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock.

(Wheieupon, at 12 : 15 p. m., the committee was recessed, to recon-
vene at 2 p. m., the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION— WEDNESDAY, MAY 16, 1956

Committee members present: Representatives Walter and Velde.
Tlie Chairman. The committee will be in order. Call your next
witness.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Raymond Moorehead. please.
Please remain standing while the chairman administers an oath to

you.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4179

The CiTAiRMAN. Raise your right hand, Mr. Moorehead. Do you
solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?

Mr. Moorehead. I do.

The Chairman. Sit down, please.

TESTIMONY OF R. (RAY) C. MOOREHEAD

ISIr. Moorehead. Could I ask a couple of questions on a point of
privilege?

;Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.

Mr. Moorehead. I am R. C. Moorehead. My residence is Phoenix,
or near Phoenix, Cash ion, Ariz. My occupation is aircraft worker.

]Mr. Velde. Where did you come from?

Mr. JMoorehead. Phoenix, Ariz., very near there.

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today, Mr. Moorehead, in response
to a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee
on Un-American Activities?

]\Ir. Moorehead. Yes, sir.

Mv. Arens. Mr. Moorehead, have you ever been a member of the
Connnunist Party?

Mr. Moorehead. I have

]\Ir. Arens. During what period of time were you a member of the
Communist Party?

Mr. Moorehead. From May of 1947 until April of 1050.

]\Ir. Arens. Without reciting the details, under what circumstances
did you join the Communist Party?

]\Ir. Moorehead. At the request of the Federal Bureau of Inves-
tigation.

Mr. Arens. Were you at any time ideologically identified with the
Communist Party?

^Ir. Moorehead. Yes.

Mr. Arens. I don't believe you understood my question. Were
you at any time in sympathy with the Communist Party?

]\Ir. Moorehead. Oh, no.

Mr. Arens. During the entire time of your membership in the
Communist Party from 1947 until 1950 were you a member solely to
serve 3^our country patriotically by procuring information for the
Federal lUireau of Investigation?

;Mr. MooREin:AD. That is true.

Mr. Arens. You were at no time in sympathy with the conspiracy or
the conspiratorial operations of the Communist Party?

;Mr. Moorehead. That is true.

Mr. Arens. First of all, in your own way tell us, what entity of the
Communist conspiracy did you first enter.

Mr. Moorehead. I was in food, tobacco, and agriculture, local 78 in
Phoenix, where they worked in vegetables there.

Mr. Arens. Who were the other members of that particular cell or
branch or unit?

Mr. Moorehead. There were many, particularly in the food, tobacco,
and agriculture union. We first had a fellow by the name of Donald
Henderson, who was our international president in Philadelphia. I

70070— 56— pt. 1 8

4180 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

believe, at the time. Then next down the line in order I would say
was a fellow by the name of Rufus Bell, our local president, local
FTA-CIO there in Phoenix.

Mr. Arens. Was this a fraction of the Communist Party within the
local Food, Tobacco, Agricultural and Allied Workers Union of
America ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. It was.

Mr. Arens. How many members were there in the fraction?

Mr. MooREHEAD. There must have been somewhere, just an estima-
tion, 50 or 75, migratory workers who came in whenever the lettuce
and vegetables were being harvested.

Mr. Arens. Were these 50 to 75 members of the fraction from the
local of the food, tobacco, and agricultural workers ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. They were.

Mr. Arens. How many of that 50 to 75 were actually Communist
Party members ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. They were all actually Communist Party members,
but that wasn't all the people who were in the local.

Mr. Arens. Tell us, if you please, the leaders of the group. _

Mr. MooREHEAD. As I started to say, Rufus Bell was the president
of our local there.

Mr. Arens. Do you know where Mr. Bell is now ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Ycs.

Mr. Arens. Wliere?

Mr. MooREHEAD. He is in Tolleson, Ariz., about 12 miles west of
Phoenix.

Mr. Arens. Do you know what he is doing ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. He is still active in the vegetable industry. I
don't know just in what capacity.

Mr. Arens. Is there another person whose name you can recount
to us ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Yes. A fellow who was our overall president,
which took in some locals in California ; a fellow by the name of Duke
Cunningham.

Mr. Arens. Do you identify him as a person known by you to be
a member of the Communist Party ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Yes.

Dick Turner was another member of our local, an official in our
local 78 there.

Mr. Arens. Was he a Communist?

Mr. MooREHEAD. He was.

Mr. Arens. Do you have the names of other leaders ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. There were others, yes. Let me consult a paper
here.

Mr. Arens. Did you prepare those notes from your own recollec-
tion?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Yes, if you want me to look and see. These are a
few names that come to my mind right now. ^ Jimmy Patton was an-
other party member, who was also an official in our local. Duke
Cunningham. Chuck Fellow.

Mr. Arens. Identify the last name.

Mr. MooREHEAD. Chuck Fellow. I gave you Duke Cunningham
as being overall president of the local, which covered California and
Arizona. There is Charles Fellow, Chuck Fellow, as he is known.

coMivrcnsriST activities in the rocky mountain area 4181

He was an official in the California local. These were all members of
local 78.

]\Ir. Arens. Of food, tobacco and a^^ricultural workers ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Yes. Jimmy Patton also was a member. Dick
Turner, and I believe Kufus Bell, whom I have mentioned, and were
more or less the officials who were in the local practically all the time
that I was in the party and in the local.

Air. Arens. Was the food, tobacco, and agricultural workers domi-
nated and controlled by the Communist conspiracy ?

Mr. ]\IooREHEAD. Why, sure.

Mr. Arens. Just to clear this record, would you give us a word about
the food, tobacco, and agricultural workers organization?

Mr. Moorehead. They were always looking for more members in
that organization, and the officials in our union were, to the last one,
Connnunists. After I joined the party and got in, then I could see
why that every union meeting was run according to the dictates of the
Communist Party because we had either a party meeting before the
union meeting or immediately after. We set the stage for what was to
happen next. If we wanted something to go over, a party member
over here would make a motion, one over here would second it. It
would look like it was all over the house, even though a small group
controlled it.

Mr. Arens. How many Communists actually controlled the union?

Mr. Moorehead. A very few. We were disciplined by the officials
who were over us in the union as party members, but a very few party
members ran the union.

Mr. Arens. Have you identified the Communist Party members in
the higher echelons of the food, tobacco, and agricultural workers?

Mr. Moorehead. I did.

Mr. Arens. What happened to the food, tobacco, and agricultural
workers %

Mr. Moorehead. They, to my remembrance, were more or less
thrown out of there and another, what was it, DP

Mr. Arens. DPOWA? Distributive Processing and Office Work-
ers of America ?

Mr. Moorehead. That is right. They took over.

Mr. Arens. When did that take place ?

Mr. Moorehead. I believe that was about 1950 ; 1949 or 1950. I am
not positive.

Mr. Arens. Were the Communists thrown out of the food, tobacco,
and agricultural workers ?

Mr. Moorehead. In that particular local, we were.

Mr. Arens. In that particular local in Phoenix ?

Mr. Moorehead. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Then what happened to that local ?

Mr. Moorehead. Our president, Air. Bell, was out of a job, and we
were all thrown out in the street together because they wanted to take
it away from Communist domination.

Mr. Arens. That is, the other membership arose and threw out the
Communist leadership?

Mr. AIoorehead. Yes. So he got up, dusted himself off, and said
that he had been a Communist but he was washing his hands and get-
ting clean now. He goes over and tries to get in this DPOWA.

4182 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

He said to the shippers and growers there, "I will not only tell you
that I was a Communist, but 1 am not any more," and he also gave
the shippers and growers the name of every Conmiunist member ihat
was in the local.

Mr. AiJENs. Is it a part of Communist strategy and tactics to deny
membership if they can get away with it ?

Mr. MooiuiEAD. I think so. Sometimes, maybe. It is owin^ to
what kind of company you are around. If you deny it they might
be suspicious. I just kept my mouth shut whether I was or wasn't.

Mr. Akens. Is it a part of Communist strategy perhaps to resign
technical membership but still be part of the apparatus and under
Communist conspiratorial discipline?

]Mr. MooREHEAD. Ycs.

Mr. Arens. They did that in connection with the signing of the
National Labor Ixelations Board affidavits; did they not?

Mr. MooREiiEAD. Yes; more or less. It woukhi't be anything for
the international president to tell our president in the local, Rufus
Bell, '"Go ahead and sign a non-Communist affidavit," because at that
time they didn't have it really straightened out, and it wasn't going
to be his neck if he did sign it falsely.

Mr. Arens. May I invite your attention to Communist Party opera-
tions in the State of Arizona. Could you tell us the key leaders of
the Communist Party in Arizona?

Mr. MooREiiEAD. Yes.

Mr. Ajrens. First, the State board of the Communist Party in
Arizona.

Mr. MooRHEAD. Morris Graham was the chairman of the State
board.

Mr. Arens. Identify him a little further, please.

Mr. MoOREiiEAD. Just how do you want him identified?

Mr. Arens. What is he doing now ?

JSIr. MooREHEAD. He is underground and has been for about 3 years
as far as I am concerned.

Mr. Arens. Passed away ?

]Mr, Moorehead. No ; he has been underground.

]\Ir. Arens. I see.

Mr. MooREiiEAD. You don't hear of him anymore. I am not sure
that he has passed away, but to all purposes

Mr. Arens. That is a term that can be interpreted either way.

How about Carl Wilson ?

Mr. Moorehead. Carl Wilson also I haven't seen in about 2 years.

]\Ir. Arens. Is he likewise perhaps alive but undergromid?

]SIr. Moorehead. That is true.

]Mr. Arens. Who was another person in the leadership of the Com-
munist conspiracy in Arizona?

Mr. Moorehead. Lewis Johnson. I don't know whether he is. The
last time I saw him was in the Federal court down here in Denver.

Mr. Arens. During the course of your activity in the Communist
conspiracy in the Phoenix, Ariz., area did you attend Commmiist
Party training schools?

Mr. Moorehead. I did.

Mr. Arens. Tell us where they were, how many you attended, and
who were the principal participants.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4183

Afr. MooRF.iTEAD. I went to several. The first I went to was south
of Plioenix in an oran^je |jrove where we had a bnildino; out of way.
Wlien we drove in, our cars couldn't be seen. Our membership —
anybody couldn't be seen ^oinj]: in and out. If at ni<rht and we were
havinjj a meeting or a school there, the windows had blinds on them
so nobody was any wiser than there was a meeting going on. We
were picked out of different clubs to attend different meetings and
different schools. Then at the Masonic Temple in Phoenix — I am
sure this doesn't have anything to do with the Masonic lodge; that
was the name of the building — we had party schools and meetings
there.

Mr. Arf.ns. Tell us, who were the leaders conducting the schools
and who were the principal participants attending the scliools?

Mr. MooiJEiiEAD. 1 went to a school where a fellow by the name of
Jim Forrest taught the scliool.

]\Tr. Arens. Can you further identify Jim Forrest for us ?

Mr. MooREiiEAD. As I know Jim Forrest was tried in St. Louis,
INIo., under the Communist Conspiracy Act, and I think was sentenced
from there to serve a term.

Mr. Arens. Wlio else attended the school at which Jim Forrest was
an instructor?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Morris Graham, Freda Graham, John Dutch, Lew
Johnson. Almost any of the top echelon of the party were there,
most all of them. I can remember offhand many rank and file people.

Mr. Arens. "Wlio were some of the rank and file Communists who
attended these party schools?

Mr. Moorehead. There was Jimmy Patton and his wife, that I can
think of right off. You can appreciate that in about 1947 or 1948
up to now it is hard to draw from memory some of the main ones.
Ilpwever, they were the rank and file people who were around the
community there.

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge how many groups or sections of the
Communist Party were actually in existence in Phoenix?

Mr. MooREiiEAD. How many clubs and so forth ?

Mr. Arens. Yes.

Mr, Moorehead. I say there must have been about 5 or 6 different
clubs that I was in, first and last.

Mr. Arens. Let's start with club No. 1, and go right on down the
list. Tell us the name of the club you were in and those who were
in the club with 5'ou.

Mr. Moorehead. T was in the Joe Hill Club, and these people that
I identified in the beginning. Chuck Fellows, Jimmy Patton, Jimmy
Patton's wife, Duke Cunningham, Kufus Bell — all those migratory
workers who Avere in the union were in the Joe Ilill Club.

LIr. Arens. The Joe Hill Club of the Communist Party?

Mr. Moorehead. Yes. There was a Mike Quinn Club, a Jefferson
Davis Club.

Mr. Arens. You talked about the Joe Hill Club. Let's talk about
the Mike Quinn Club. Who was in the Mike Quinn Club beside your-
self?

Mr. INIooREHEAD. '\"\nienever these people, the migratory workers,
would move out to Colorado or California or anywhere, I was left in
the State more or less without a club to go to, so I would go to one of
these others, the Mike Qumn Club, as a visitor maybe for a few meet-

4184 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

ings. Later on I would go to another club, the Thomas Jefferson Club,
and the Jefferson Davis Club.

Mr. Arens. Who was in the Mike Quinn Club ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. There was another, Turner.

Mr. Arens. What was his first name ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. I Can't remember. I should remember it. I be-
lieve it was Herbert. He was from Tucson. He came from Tucson.
I didn't get too well acquainted with him because I wasn't in the
Mike Quinn Club too much. There was a man there from Chicago,
a fellow by the name of Joe Stearn. As I remember it he was an offi-
cial in the club. A lot of them when you met them you just met them
as comrade so-and-so, and you don't get their last names. If you
happen to be there and they just attended 1 or 2 meetings you never
learned who they were.

Mr. Arens. What was your party name ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Comrade Ray. That is the way they introduced
me.

Mr. Arens. Do you have a recollection of any persons who were
members of the Thomas Jefferson Club?

Mr. Moorehead. There was a fellow by the name of Moton.

Mr. Arens. How do you spell that, do you recall ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. I bclievc it is M-o-t-o-n, Perkin Moton.

There was a fellow by the name of Rodriguez who was an official in
the club.

Mr. Arens. Was that his first or last name ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. The last name.

Mr. Arens. Was he an official in the Thomas Jefferson Club?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Do you know where Rodriguez is now ?

Mr. Moorehead. He is dead. He died later on. The people that
I was watching most were the people who were, not rsmk and file, hut
at the top of the party.

Mr. Arens. "\V1io were some of the people at the top of the party ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. I liave mentioned the ones who were on the State
board.

Mr. Arens. All right. Were you also identified with the West
Side Club?

IVIr, Moorehead. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us the names of any of the individuals who
were members of the West Side Club of the Communist Party?

Mr. MooREHEAD, I belicve that I didn't visit this West Side Club

but very little. There were people 1 believe I can tell you there

was a woman by the name of Comrade Artie, and another person that
I knew, I believe her name was Hart. There were several. I can't
remember. I didn't attend the meetings of the West Side Club very
often.

Mr. Arens. You knew, however, there was a West Side Club of the
Communist Party ?

Mr. Moorehead. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Was there also another club?

Mr. Moorehead. I mentioned the Jefferson Davis Club.

Mr. Arens. How about the Benjamin Davis Club.

Mr. Moorehead. Yes; Benjamin Davis. I visited with that club.
Lots of times I would go to one club for a week or two and then I would

COMMXJNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4185

go to another. They would send me to another club because they
would meet at dilt'erent times and different places. I would go from
one to another.

Mr. Arens. Did the Communist Party operate or control a book-
store in Phoenix during your membership until 1950?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Yes.

Mr. Arexs. AVhat bookstore did they control 'i

Mr. MooREHEAD. I belicve it was the Lincoln Book Store.

Mr. AiiEXS. Abraham Lincoln Book Store ?

]VIi\ MooREHEAD. Yes.

Mr. Arexs. Do you recall where that was located?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Fifth Street, about halfway between Fifth and
Sixth, I believe.

Mr. Arens. What occurred at the bookstore ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. That was party headquarters.

Mr. Arens. Did they sell books, party literature ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Yes; we sold books in the front and conducted
business in the back.

Mr. Arexs. Who was in charge of the bookstore ?

JVIr. MooREHEAD. Morris Graham.

Mr. Arexs. Can you tell us a word about the discipline to which
you were subjected as a comrade?

]Mr. MooREHEAD. Ycs. We didn't do anything that the party didn't
tell us to do. We didn't do anything on our own initiative. The
party told us what we would do at all times, more especially anything
which pertained to politics. Any stand that we took on anything
would come from the party.

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us, without, I am sure, appearing to be
lauding yourself, some of the sacrihces which you had to make as an
undercover agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation in serving
your country by reporting on the Conmiunist Party ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Bciug in such a small community and being there
so long, 25 years, I had raised my family and schooled them in that
place. Everyone knows me by name and each neighbor knows practi-
cally everybody. It wasn't long after I joined the party until it was
well known that I was a Communist, by rimior or by association with
people that they were sure were Conmimiists.

Mr. Arexs. You mean in your own commmiity ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Yes.

Mr. Arexs. Among your friends there ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Yes. As time went on one told the other that I
was a Communist, and in 1 or 2 instances I was asked by good friends
if I was a Communist. I couldn't afford to tell them I wasn't a Com-
munist because at that time, if I had, probably any information I might
have gotten later on would have been stopped right there. So I ]ust
told them, "You will have to guess whether I am a Communist or not."

Mr. Arens. Did you suffer any ill effects economically from the
standpoint of your work, promotions in your work, by your service
to your country ?

Air. MooREHEAD. Yes. I had a job with the Federal Inspection
Marketing Service there, a Government job, and I got fired off that job
for being a Communist. They needed inspectors and I knew the job
and knew the job well and could perform well. I only worked 10 days
when they sent back to Washington, D. C, to get my license. I guess

4186 coMMinsnsT activities in the rocky mountain area

they gave me a loyalty check there, and when it came back they just
didn't need me. I lost several jobs. It got to where I couldn't even
work in the industry because feeling was liigli against communism, I
had to leave the State to get work.

Mr. Arens. Nevertheless, you stayed in the Communist conspiracy
in order to report information to the Federal Bureau of Information
to serve your country ; is that correct ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. I did.

Mr. Arens. Did the Communist Party ever request you or urge you
to enlist your wife and children in the conspiracy ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. They did.

Mr. Arens. AVhat did you do about that ?

Mr. MooRETiEAD. The first time I remember, there was a theater
which was discriminating against colored people. There were no
seats for colored people. They wanted my children to come down and
join the picket line.

Mr. Arens. That is, the Communist Party did ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Ycs ; I told them I had to keep my family out of
it. If they wanted me, well and good. The first two times the chair-
man of the State board asked me if I did not think that a divorce was
in order if I couldn't bring my wife into line. We had quite a clash
over it. I didn't agree with him on it, and I told him so, that I was
willing to go along with the party and do my share, but tliat I didn't
want him to run my personal alfairs at home. Anothei- time at a union
meeting, when I first was in the party about G months they thought
that my reputation and my life there in the community were such that
they asked me to get up and admit in a union meeting that I was a
Communist. That is when we were about to be thrown out. I told
them I didn't want my head knocked off, and I knew right then there
were at least six or eight G-shooters in the building at the union
meet in <^.

Mr. Arens. During the course of your experience in the Communist
Party did you ever run into a man by the name of Bill Gaitlcy,
G-a-i-t-l-e-y?

JNIr. MooREHEAD. Ycs.

]\Ir. Arens. Can you identify Bill Gaitley for us?

Mr. MooREHEAD. He was from Mine, INlill, and Smelter "Workers,
and I believe he was from Globe. The first time I met him was in 1947
when Food, Tobacco, and Agriculture was on a strike. He was there
in the strike in the union hall quite a few times. He made several
talks for us. Later on at a school, as I mentioned at first, south of
. Phoenix, we were winding up the school on one Sunday and Bill Gait-
ley came out there also and made us a talk at this school.

Mr. Arens. Did you know Bill Gaitley as a member of the Com-
munist Party?

Mr. MooREHEAD. I didn't see his party card, but he had no reason to
be out there at this school if he wasn't a Communist because we weren't
admitting people who weren't Communists.

Mr. Arens. Was that a closed party meeting?

Mr. MooREHEAD. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Do you here and now identify Bill Gaitley as a person
who to your knowledge was a member of the Communist Party?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4187

Mr. MooREHEAD. To my knowledge, I might not say that I ever
looked at his membership card but I have been in Communist Party
meetings with him.

Mr. Arens. Have you attended meetings with Bill Gaitley at which
only comrades in good standing were admitted?

Mr. MooREHEAD. That is right.

Mr. Arens. Who was Herschel Hancock ?

Mr. MooREHEAD. He was the man who recruited me into the party.
He was in Food, Tobacco, and Agriculture.

Mr. Arens. Do you know where he is now ?

Mr. MooREKEAD. I dou't, unless he is in California. The last I heard
he was in California.

Mr. Arens. After you and the other comrades were ejected from
the Food, Tobacco, and Agricultural Workers, what did you do from
the standpoint of service to the Communist Party?

Mr. Moorehead. When we got thrown out I kept my regular meet-
ings everywhere I could, because if you will understand, I was trying
to get the information for the FBI. I didn't care anything about the
party. I was trying to get all the information I could for the FBI. I
kept my contact with the Joe Hill Club until it just fell apart. Then
I would go in around headquarters and be invited to other meetings in
the party.

Mr. Arens. Were you in a dormant state within the Communist
Party so far as activity was concerned within a labor organization?

Mr. Moorehead. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Did they regard you as dormant or a sleeper?

Mr. Moorehead. Yes; they did. We didn't have any union to con-
trol. We had been thrown out of our union. Our officials in the party
were more or less jittery and scared. You would just see them now and
then, and they never had any news of any party meetings. The book-
store had been closed, shut down.

Mr. Arens. Is the Communist Party pretty deep underground now
in the Phoenix area ?

Mr. Moorehead. Yes, it is.

Mr. Arens. How serious and how potent was the Communist Party
prior to the time you went into the dormant state?

Mr. Moorehead. It was strong, I would say. It was astonishing
to me when I joined the party to learn that as many people were Com-
munists as there were.

Mr. Velde. Wlien did you first join the party?

Mr. Moorehead. 1947.

Mr. Velde. When did it become dormant ?

Mr. Moorehead. More or less about 1951, along in there, 1950 or
1951.

Mr. Arens. By dormant do you mean it went underground?

Mr. Moorehead. Underground — in 1950 or 1951.

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge, was it at that time a serious
menace?

Mr. Moorehead. If they ever doubted me as a true Communist
Party member it is because I didn't recruit. That was always on the
agenda, recruiting. Yes; really when I went in the party it was
serious. We were asked to recruit, and recruit everybody we could.

]VIr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, we have completed our interrogation

4188 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

of this witness, except that we want to extend the thanks of the staff
for his cooperation with us.

The Chairman. Any questions, Mr. Velde?

Mr. Velde. I want to add my thanks to you for serving your coun-
try so well. I have some idea, having been a former FBI agent myself,
of the hardships you undercover agents suffer. We certainly appreci-
ate the service that you have rendered to your country.

The Chairman. You are excused, with the thanks of the committee.

Call your next witness.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Bernard W. Stern, please.

The Chairman. Kaise your right hand, please. Do you swear that
the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Stern. I do.

TESTIMONY OF BEEUAED W. STEEN; ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,

NATHAN WITT

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence and occu-
pation.

Mr. Stern. My name is Bernard W. Stern. I live at 1809 South
Michigan Way in Denver. I am an economist employed as research
director for the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers Union.

Mr. Arens. x\re you appearing today in response to a subpena
which was served upon you ?

Mr. Stern. I am.

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mr. Stern. I am.

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself.

Mr. Witt. Nathan Witt, W-i-t-t, Post Office Box 156, New York,
N. Y.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Stern, where and when were you born ?

Mr. Stern. I was born in Brooklyn, N. Y., February 12, 1912.

Mr. Arens. A word about your education, please, sir.

Mr. Stern. I received my bachelor of science degree from the Col-
lege of the City of New York in Jnne 1933. Subsequent to that I took
some graduate work at American University in Washington. I never
received any graduate degree, though.

Mr. Arens. (rive us, if you please, a chronology of your employ-
ments since you completed your formal education.

Mr. Stern. Immediately after I completed college I continued on
a job that I had had while going to school as a library assistant in a
law library in New York City. I held that job until the end of 1935,
I believe, and then went to Avork in a chocolate factory in Brooklyn
for about 6 months and then received an appointment from the Civil
Service Commission as a library assistant in the Department of Labor
Library, in Wasliington, D. C.

Mr. Arens. "WHien did that employment begin?

Mr. Stern. June 1936.

Mr. Arens. The Department of Labor Library?

Mr. Stern. That is right.

Mr. Arens. How long did you remain in that job?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKT MOUNTAIN AREA 4189

Mr. Stern. Approximately 1 year, and then I transferred to the
Division of Economic Kesearch of the National Labor Ilelations
Board. That was about 1037.

Mr. Arens. IIow long did you occupy that job?

Mr. Stern. I remained with the National Labor Relations Board,
althougli the Division was, I tliink, abolished — I switched from the
Division to the I^gal Division, but the job was essentially the same —
up until the end of June 1945.

Mr. Arens. Did you occupy the same job with the National Labor
Relations Board from 1937 to 1945?

Mr. Stern. There were reclassifications and promotions.

Mr. Arens. What was your last job?

Mr. Stern. Senior industrial analyst.

Mr, Arens. "What precipitated your disassociation from the Na-
tional Labor Relations Board in 1945?

Mr. Stern. I left voluntarily to take my present job with the Mine,
Mill and Smelter Workers Union.

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, a comparable chronology of
your employment activities with the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers.

Mr. Stern. I have been research director ever since the end of
June 1945. Do you want a description of those duties?

Mr. Arens. First, in what locations have you served ?

]\Ir. Stern. At the time I went with Mine, Mill and Smelter, the
headquarters were in Chicago, and I mo^ed to Chicago to take the
job. I remained in the Chicago area until we moved to Denver,
which I believe was about January 1951.

Mr. Arens, Have you been in the Denver area since 1951?

Mr. Stern. That is right.

Mr. Arens. Who is your immediate superior?

Mr. Stern. I work under the supervision of all of the officers,
although practically speaking, I work most directly with the resident
officers, which would be the president and the secretary-treasurer,
President John Clark, and Secretary-Treasurer Albert Pezzati.

Mr. Arens. Please give us a word about your specific duties and
responsibilities.

Mr. Stern. My job encompasses studying and keeping informed on
trends within the national economy, trends within the industry, devel-
opments in collective bargaining throughout the country, keeping the
officers and staff advised of all such developments, preparing material
for their use on these subjects, participating in negotiations when re-
quested, in general covering the field of economic and industrial devel-
opment, plus keeping informed on developments in the particular
field of occupational diseases with which the union is concerned.

Mr, Arens. Mr, Stern, have you ever filed a personnel affidavit with
the Federal Government under the provisions of the so-called Hatch
Act?

Mr, Stern. May I consult my attorney on that a moment?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stern, I decline to answer that question under the privilege
afforded me by the fifth amendment to the Constitution of the United
States,

Mr. Arens. I mark now a document as "Stern Exhibit No. 1," which
is a photostatic copy of standard form No, 47, aj^proved by the Bureau

4190 COMMTJlSriST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

of the Budget May 15, 1941, Personnel Affidavit, in wliicli among other
things this language appears :

I, Bernard W. Stern, do solemnly swear (or afBrm) that I have read and
understand the f orejioin.c ; that I do not advocate the overthrow of the Govern-
ment of the United States by force or violence ; that I am not a member of any
political party or organization that advocates the overthrow of the Government
of the United States by force or violence ; and tliat during such time as I am an
employee of the Federal Government I will not advocate nor become a member
of any political party or organization that advocates the overthrow of the
Government of the United States by force or violence.

There appears at the conclusion of this document dated Jime 21,
1941, with a notary's seal apparently subscribed and sworn to, the
signature of Bernard W. Stern. I lay that before you and ask you if
that is your signature.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stekx. I decline to answer that question. Would it be suf-
ficient, Mr. Chairman, if I just say for the same reason?

The Chairman". By that do you mean the reason given a moment
ago?

Mr. Steen. That is right.

The Chairman. All right.

Mr. Arens. "Were you an emploj^ee of the Federal Government on
June 21, 1941?

Mr. Stern. I was.

Mr. Arens. At that time were you a member of an organization that
advocated the overthrow of the Government of the United States by
force or violence?

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons
previously given.

Mr, Arens. Did you ever take or subscribe to an affidavit respecting
your employment b^^ the Federal Government which you laiew at the
time you signed was untruthful ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.

Mr. Arens. jNIr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that this docu-
ment to which we have been alluding as "Stern Exhibit No. 1", be
incorporated by reference in this record and retained in the files of the
committee.

The Chairman. It is so ordered.

]\Ir. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Kenneth Eckert?

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.

Mr. Arens. Kenneth Eckert under oath before Hon. Jean S. Breit-
enstein, judge, United States District Court in Denver, December 1,
1955, testified among other things, as follows :

Question. And do you know whether or not Bernard Stern was at that time
a member of the Communist Party?
Answer. Yes, he was.

Was Mr. Eckert lying or was he telling the truth when in this pub-
lished record in the court he identified you as a member of the Com-
munist Party?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.

Mr. Arens. Did you ever know a person by the name of Herbert
Fuchs, F-u-c-h-s?

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4191

Mr, Arens. Herbert Fuchs under oath before the Plonse Committee
on Un-American Activities, last fall in public session, testified among
other things that he knew you as a member of the Communist Party
in Washington. Was he lying or was he telling the truth ?

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.

Mr. Velde. Were you attending American University at the same
time Professor Fuchs was there?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.

Mr. Velde. "Wlien were you at American University ?

Mr. Stern. I took courses at American University while working.
I couldn't fix it too precisely, but my best recollection is from the
period about 1940 to 1943 or 1944.

Mr. Arens. Did you ever know a person by the name of Bellarmino
Joe Duran ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.

Mr. Arens. Duran testified to the effect that he was under instruc-
tions when he was a member of the Communist Party to take orders
from you. Did you transmit or cause to be transmitted Communist
Party instructions to Bellarmino Duran?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stern. Might I ask when Mr, Duran said this, Mr. Arens?

Mr. Arens. I am under the impression he said it in the course of
his testimony.

Mr. Stern. Before this committee?

Mr, Arens. Yes, sir. He has testified before this committee both
in public and in executive session. If you have no recollection of
that occurrence or if it is a case of mistaken concept, of course you
may state so,

Mr. Stern. I wasn't here during all of his testimony. I am trying
to find just when he said it,

(The witness conferred with his counsel,)

Mr, Arens. Is it a fact that you caused or were in the conduit to
transmit Communist Party instructions to Bellarmino Duran?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stern. I claim the privilege of the fifth amendment on that,

Mr, Arens. Did you ever know a person by the name of Harry
Brenner?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you and Harry Brenner were in a Communist Party
cell in the National Labor Relations Board at the time of your em-
ployment by that agency of the Federal Government.

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer for the same reason.

Mr. Arens, Did you ever know a person by the name of Harry
Cooper?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that for the same reason.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you and Harry Cooper were comrades together in a
Communist Party cell at the National Labor Relations Board between
the years 1937 and 1945.

4192 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer for the same reason.

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist conspiracy?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that for the same reason.

Mr. Arens. Are you now under Communist Party discipline?

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that for the same reason.

Mr. Arens. Was your job with the International Union of Mine,
Mill, and Smelter Workers procured for you by a person known by
you to be a member of the Communist conspiracy ?

Mr. Stern. My job with the International Union of Mine, Mill,
and Smelter Workers was given to me by unanimous vote of the
international executive board of the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Work-
ers Union after I applied for it.

Mr. Arens. To your certain knowledge how many of the members
of the executive board were at that time members of the Communist
conspiracy ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer for the same reason.

Mr. Arens. Give us the membership of this board you say employed
you. Wlio were its members ?

Mr. Stern. At the time the president was Reid Robinson.

Mr. Arens. Was Reid Robinson a member of the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.

Mr. Arens. "Wlio was next in line on the board?

Mr. Stern. The vice president at that time was Ralph Rasmussen.

Mr. Arens. Was Ralph Rasmussen a member of the Communist
conspiracy?

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.

Mr. Arens. Another name, please.

Mr. Stern. James Leary was the secretary — do you want me to go
down the list and then we can come back ?

Mr. Arens. Name the whole list and then we will come back and
ask a few questions about them en banc.

Mr. Stern. James Leary was the secretary-treasurer at the time.
Then taking the board members*by districts, district 1 was William
Mason, district 2 was Dan Edwards, district 3 was Angelo Verdu,
district 4 was Leonard Douglas, district 5 was Homer Wilson, district 6
was John Manowsky, district 7 was Chase Powers, and district 8 was
Robert Carlin. At that time district 8 was Canada.

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge, were any of those persons you just
enumerated not members of the Communist conspiracy ?

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question.

Mr. Arens. Were all of them members of the Communist con-
spiracy?

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.

Mr. Arens. In your work as an economist for the Mine, Mill, and
Smelter Workers, liave you taken directions and orders from the Com-
munist conspiracy in the performance of your day-by-day duties?

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.

Mr. Arens. Have your economic theories and the economic program
which you have been working on at any time been at variance with the
economic theories and program of the international Communist con-
spiracy ?

COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOXJNTAIN AREA 4193

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Stern. Let me put it this way, Mr. Arens : As an economist I
consult and read anything and everything that I think might be useful
to me in my work, and that would cover a pretty wide range of
theories; a pretty wide range.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever taken a position at variance with the
Marxist philosophy and economic theory of communism as enunciated
by the principal leaders of the Soviet Union?

Mr. Stern. Would you want to explain what those theories are ?

Mr. Arens. You are the economist. You would be much better
equipped to make an appraisal of any variations which you may have
had in your economic theories and your work than I. 1 am a lawyer.

Mr. Stern. I am sure it is almost inevitable that in the many years
I have worked as an economist 1 have approached and adopted theories
that were at variance Avith almost any and every accepted theory.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever taken a stand in your economic theories
against the interests of the Connnunist Party of the United States?

Mr. Stern. Would you care to explain what those interests are ?

Mr. Arens. Again, you are the economist, so tell us whether or not
you have done that.

Mr. Stern. My main guiding stick or touchstone is to try not to
take positions that are at variance with the interests of the member-
ship of this union. That is my main touchstone.

Mr. Arens. Have you taken any stand at variance with the interests
of the Communist conspiracy in this country ?

]\Ir. Stern. Would you care to define what those interests are?

Mr. Arens. I suggest that you would perhaps be a better judge of
the position which you have taken.

Mr. Stern. I would assume just as a matter of chance that that was
inevitable, that I have taken positions at variance with almost any
and every theory.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been disciplined by the Communist
conspiracy for not quite toeing the mark ?

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Who is the counsel to the International Union of Mine,
Mill, and Smelter Workers ?

Mr. Stern. ]\Ir. Nathan Witt, who is sitting at my left.

Mr. Arens. Could you help us a little bit and tell us where Albert
Pezzati might be ?

Mr. Stern. I don't know.

Mr. Arens. When did vou last see him ?

Mr. Stern. Saturday before last in Salt Lake City.

Mr. Arens. Did you have any discussion with him about the fact
that our committee was looking for him ?

Mr. Stern. We discussed many subjects. Of course, our main con-
cern was the present bargaining situation. We are getting into bar-
gaining right now. I would say it is possible that may have come up
but, frankly, I don't recall any details of any discussion with him.

ISIr. xVrens. Do you know whether Al Pezzati is a member of the

Communist conspiracy?

Mr. Stern. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that we conclude

our interrogation of this witness, and it might be appropriate to

recess at tliis time.

4194 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

The Chairman. The witness is excused from further attendance
under the subpena.

The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes.

(Brief recess.)
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.

Call your next witness.

(Committee members present: Representatives Walter and Yelde.)

Mr. Arens. Harold Sanderson.

The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand. Do you swear
that the testimony you are about to give shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Sanderson. I do.

The Chairman. Be seated.

TESTIMONY OP HAROLD C. SANDERSON; ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, NATHAN WITT

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence and occu-
pation.

Mr. Sanderson. My name is Harold C. Sanderson. I live at 2076
South St. Paul Street, Denver. I am comptroller of the International
Union of Mine, ISIill and Smelter Workers.

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today in response to a subpena
served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American Activities?

Mr. Sanderson. I am.

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel?

Mr. Sanderson. I am.

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself .

Mr. Witt. Nathan Witt, W-i-t-t-, Post Office Box 156, New York,
N. Y.

Mr. Arens. Wliere and when were you bom, Mr. Sanderson ?

Mr. Sanderson. I was born in Cleveland, Ohio, on May 19, 1914.

Mr. Arens. A word if you please, sir, about your education.

Mr. Sanderson. I went to grammar school in Cleveland, also in
Newark, N. J. I was graduated from high school in Newark, N. J.
I took some college courses at the College of the City of New York.
I never received a degree.

Mr. Arens. When did you last take courses at the College of the
City of New York?

Mr. Sanderson. I should guess somewhere around 1934.

Mr. Arens. Now, if you please, sir, give us a brief chronological
account of your employment since you completed your formal
education.

Mr. Witt. Excuse me, Mr. Counsel and Mr. Chairman. I am not
certain the photographer has in mind to keep taking pictures wliile
Mr. Sanderson is testifying.

The Chairman. You may take a picture before the witness testifies,
but not during the testimony.

Mr. Witt. We have no objection if the photographer wants to take
any more now.

The Chairman. Proceed.

Mr. Sanderson. For 2 or 3 years — in the history part of it I am
not too sure of the dates — for about 2 or 3 years, I worked for the

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4195

Keystone Iron & Wire Works in New York City. I was a stenog-
rapher there. Then I worked for the National Maritime Union.

Mr. Arens. Give us the dates of the Maritime Union service, please.

Mr. Sanders(;N. I would say it was in 1937 and 1938.

Mr. Arens. In what capacity were you with the National Maritime
Union ?

Mr. Sanderson. I worked in their bookkeeping department. I was
a cashier there. Then I went to work for local 251 of the International
Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers in Waterbury, Conn.

Mr. Arens. Would you pause there ? Do you recall when you first
commenced Avitli local 251 ?

Mr. Sanderson. I would say in 1939, about the beginning of the
year.

Mr. Arens. In Connecticut ?

Mr. Sanderson. In Connecticut.

Mr. Arens. In what cajiacity were you employed ?

Mr. Sanderson. I handled the books of the local union.

Mr. Arens. Kindly continue to trace your employment.

Mr. Sanderson. And in 1910 I went to work for the National Office
of the International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Works.

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ?

Mr. Sanderson. I was secretary to the president of the union.

Mr. Arens. Who was he ?

Mr. Sanderson. Reid Robinson.

Mr. Arens. Where Avas that ?

Mr. Sanderson. In Denver.

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Kindly continue.

Mr. Sanderson. I continued in my employment with the interna-
tional union ever since then.

Mr. Arens. Have you been located in Denver ever since 1940 ?

Mr. Sanderson. The natio)ial office moved from Denver to Chicago
in 1945, and I went with the office at that time. Then in 1951 we
returned to Denver, and I came back liere.

Mr. Arens. You have been in continuous employment with the
National since 1940 ?

Mr. Sanderson. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Your present title or position is comptroller; is that
correct ?

Mr. Sanderson. Right.

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, Mr. Sanderson, a word about
your duties and responsibilities.

Mr. Sanderson. I have general supervision of the handling of the
financial records of the organization and general supervision of the
office itself.

Mr. Arexs. Plow many members are there, dues-paying members, of
the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers ?

Mr. Sanderson. I would say, as a rough estimate, about 80,000.

Mr. Arens. What is the total income of the organization from
membership dues ?

Mr. Sanderson. I don't know.

Mr. Witt. If he gave the per capita, perhaps that would suffice.

Mr. Sanderson. The per capita is $1.25 a member, except for those
in Canada, who pay only 55 cents a member.

70079— o(>—pt. 1 9

4196 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mr. Arens. It would be $1.25 a member per what — week or month ?

Mr. Sanderson. Per month for those members in the United States,
and 55 cents a member per month for the members in Canada.

Mr. Arens. Tell us what is your break between your Canadian
membership

Mr. Sandi:rson. I would say in Canada they have about 30,000
members and we have about 40,000 or 45,000 or more in the States.

Mr. Arens. Is there the same relationship between the top echelon
of the organization in the United States to its members as there is
between the top eclielon of the organization in the United States and
the Canadian members ?

Mr. Witt. If I may, it is a rather complicated question in view of
the setup.

Mr. Arens. I may have made it unnecessarily complicated. I want
to know if it is all one organization under one group of leaders ?

Mr. Sanderson. The Canadian union has their own national presi-
dent, national secretary-treasurer, and national executive board. They
have a tie with the international union tlirough the financial contri-
bution. We might send a representative to their executive board meet-
ings and they send tliem to ours. We have consultation on bargaining
and other questions like that.

Mr. Arens. You have your Canadian organization and your Amer-
ican organization. Is there an interlocking official relationship
among tlie directors or officers of the two entities?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Witt. If you would be good enough, I think we can save a little
time if you let me try it.

Mr. Arens. We would be glad to have you tell us.

Mr. Witt. As Mr. Sanderson has said, the Canadian organization
has its own executive board and its own officers in the same way as
the international union here has, but the international officers of the
union in the United States are also the international officers for the
union in Canada,

Mr. Arens. That is what I was driving at.

The Chairman. Is there only 1 district in Canada and 7 in the
United States ?

Mr. Witt. We don't call it district any more. Chairman Walter.
It used to be. I know you are asking that because of Mr. Sanderson's
answer before. But it has been wiped out as a district in view of
change in relationship which took place in recent years. So Canada
is not a district now.

Mr. Arens. Do the Canadian members make a contribution to the
Canadian organization separate and apart and distinct from the con-
tribution they make to the international office here ?

Mr. Sanderson. I can explain that. They pay the same per capita,
the Canadian locals pay $1.25 per capita per month to the Canadian
office, which in turn sends the international office 55 cents per member
per month.

Mr. Arens. Tell us how many mines in the United States, estab-
lishments in the nature of mines, include members of your organi-
zation.

Mr. Sanderson. I don't have that information. As a matter of
fact

Mr. Arens. What is your best recollection or judgment on that?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4197

Mr. Sanderson. Mr. Stern would be a better authority on that. It
•would be a guess on my part.

Mr. Arexs. Where is the concentration of membership ?

Mr. Sanderson. In the Rocky Mountain States is where you find the
basic nonferrous metal operations, although we have local unions in
the East, in Connecticut, in New Jersey, and in California, the State
of Washington, and through the Midwest, Illinois, Ohio, Missouri, and
in the South, Al-abama and Georgia, South Carolina and Mississippi.

Mr. Arens. Do you have any in Pennsylvania ?

Mr. Sanderson. We have one local now, I believe, in Erie.

jNIr. Witt. Is that Mr. Walter's district ?

Mr. Sanderson. I don't know.

The Chairman. That is in the other end of the State.

Mr. Arens. How many shop stewards do you have ?

Mr. Sanderson. I don't know the answer to th at question.

Mr. Arens. Are you familiar with the organizational structure
within the organization ?

Mr. Sanderson. We have shop stewards in the local unions. Some
locals don't have shop stewards. They are not organized on that
method. So I really don't know. I couldn't give you an accurate
answer as to how many we have in the national.

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Kenneth Eckert,
E-c-k-e-r-t?

Mr. Sanderson. I refuse to answer that under the privilege of the
fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Kennetli Eckert testified before Hon. Jean S. Breiten-
stein, United States district judge, December 1, 1955. I should like
to read you some questions and answers.

Question. Now do you know whether or not Harold Sanderson was at that
time a member of the Communist Party?
Answer. Yes.
Question. And was he?
Answer. Yes.

Was Mr. Eckert lying or was he telling the truth when he testified
in the manner which I have just excerpted from his testimony ?

Mr. Sanderson. I refuse to answer that on the gromids previously
stated.

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. Sanderson. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Abens. Are you under Communist Party discipline ?

Mr. Sanderson. I refuse to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever sigTied a non- Communist affidavit under
the National Labor Relations Board ?

Mr. Witt. Answer that.

Mr. Sanderson. No, I never have.

Mr. Arens. You weren't in that category of persons who would
be embraced by that ?

Mr. Sanderson. I am an employee, not an officer.

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting the expenditure
of funds of the International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter
Workers ?

Mr. Sanderson. I have information

4198 COMMUNIST activities est the rocky mountain area

Mr. Arens. I mean does that fall within the purview of your
operation ?

Mr. Sanderson. Yes ; it falls within

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us whether or not within the course of the
last fiscal year this organization has made contributions to any entity
or organization controlled by the Communist conspiracy in this
country ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Sanderson. I would answer that but I am afraid it is a little
too general. I don't hesitate to answer who we have made contribu-
tions to.

Mr. Arens. Has the rmion made any contributions to the American
Committee for Protection of Foreign Born?

Mr. Witt. This is still the last year, Mr. Arens ?

Mr. Arens. In the course of your knowledge, let us put it that
way. Has it made any contributions to the American Committee for
Protection of Foreign Born?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Sanderson. In the past year ; no.

Mr. Arens. Has it made any contributions in the course of your
knowledge to the defense of persons who were under indictment or
subject to trial under the Smith Act?

Mr. Sanderson. No ; to the best of my knowledge.

Mr. Arens. Has it to your knowledge paid any salaries to persons
who to your knowledge are members of the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with counsel.)

Mr. Sanderson. I will refuse to answer that. I will claim the privi-
lege under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Is there anj^ income of the International Union of Mine,
Mill, and Smelter Workers other than from these dues we have been
talking about?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Sanderson. The chief source of income of the union, as any
other union, is through per capita tax payments from the local unions,
but we also receive income through initiation fees, through new mem-
bers coming into the organization, through the sale of various sup-
plies to local unions, such as equipment needed by the locals to con-
duct their affairs. We have a defense fund which receives contribu-
tions generally from local unions and from individuals. That is about
the main source.

Mr. Arens. Is this defense fund a strike fund ?

Mr. Sanderson. No.

Mr. Arens. For the defense of what or whom is the fund ?

Mr. Sanderson. It was set up to defend — pardon me just a moment.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Sanderson. It was set up to defend union members who were
under attack legally, you know, in the courts.

Mr. Arens. Wliat would be the nature of the attack ?

Mr. Sanderson. It would flow from their activity in the union.

Mr. Arens. Who were some of the members of the organization who
were the beneficiaries of this defense fund ?

COMJVrUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN ARJ^-A 4199

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Sanderson. I want to make clear first that they didn't receive
it personally themselves, 3'ou know.

Mr. Arens. They benefited ?

Mr. Sanderson. That is right. In the case of Clinton E. Jencks,
who was a member of our union, and Maurice Travis, who used to be
secretary-treasurer of our union. I should also explain that this fund
is separate and apart from the general treasury of the union.

Mr. Akens. What is the amount of the fund ?

Mr. Sanderson. You mean what is its balance at the present time?

Mr. Arens. Yes.

Mr. Sanderson. It is not too great a balance. It depends, as I say,
on these contributions. A few thousand dollars.

Mr, Arens. Have the dues of these members been used, to your
knowledge, to assist and defend persons who were tried because of
Communist Party activities?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Sanderson. No dues have been used for that purpose.

Mr. Arens. What was Maurice Travis tried for ?

Mr. Sanderson. He was tried for falsifying a non-Communist
affidavit, as I understand.

Mr. Aeens. Were dues of the members used to finance the defense
of Travis from the charge lodged against him of falsifying a non-
Communist affidavit ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Sanderson.'^ would say Mr. Travis' defense has been financed
mainly by this defense fund Avhich came from contributions from local
unions and from individuals and is not part of the general fund of
the union or the per capita tax paid by local unions.

Mr. Witt. If I may say

Mr. Arens. I think he has made it pretty clear, Mr. Witt.

Mr. Witt. Except the reason he consulted me. That would be true
up to, say, 98 percent. Of course, the offices used b}^ people working
on the case and that kind of thing.

The Chairman. Any further questions, Mr. Arens ?

Mr. Velde. ]\lay I ask a question ?

With what was the other defendant charged ?

Mr. Sanderson. A similar charge.

]\Ir. Velde. And the fund was used in the same way in his defense ?

Mr. Sanderson. Yes.

The Chairman. Any further questions ?

Mr. Arens. No.

The Chairman. The witness is excused from further attendance
under the subpena ?

Call your next witness.

Mr. Arens. Eunice Dolan, please.

The Chairiman. Will you raise your right hand, please. Do you
swear that the testimony you are about to give this committee will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you

Mrs. DoLAN. I do.

The Chairman. Be seated, please.

4200 coMRHiNriST activities in the rocky mountain area

TESTIMONY OF EUNICE DOLAN (MRS. GRAHAM DOLAN), ACCOM-
PANIED BY COUNSEL, JAMES W. WILSON

Mr. Arexs. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc-
cupation, Mrs. Dolan.

Mrs. Dolan. My name is Mrs. Graham Dolan. I live at 3241 West
54th Avenue, and I am a housewife and mother.

Mr. Arens. Are you the wife of Graham Dolan ?

Mrs. Dolan. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today, Mrs. Dolan, in response to a
subpena whicli was served upon you by the House Un-American Ac-
tivities Committee ?

Mrs. Dolan. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ?

Mrs. Doi^vN. I am.

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself ?

Mrs. Dolan. James W. Wilson, attorney at law, 611 E and C Build-
ing, Denver, Colo.

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Dolan, have you ever been identified with the pub-
lication known as Challenge?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Dolan. The Constitution of the United States provides me
through the Bill of Rights not to bear Avitness against myself and I
will avail myself of tlie privilege of the fifth amendment and refuse to
answer that question.

Mr. Arens. Have you been advised that the conititutional provision
which you are invoking permits you to assert a right not to give infor-
mation which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding?

Mrs. Dolan. Are you asking me what my attorney just told me?

Mr. iVEENS. I am asking if 3^ou have been advised of that fact.
I w^ant to be sure you understand your rights here.

Mrs. Dolan. I think that my attorney will advise me of my rights.
I have taken for granted that he is the person who will advise me.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend, that if you told this com-
mittee whether or not you have ever been identified with the publi-
cation known as Challenge, you would be supplying information
which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Dolan. I will refuse to answer on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. ^Ir. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the wit-
ness be directed to answer that question.

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question

Mrs. Dolan. I refuse to answer on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to afHrm or deny the
fact, that you were assistant editor of Challenge.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. DoL^vN. I refuse to answer on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Did you ever know a person by the name of Frederick
Heuser, H-e-u-s-e-r ?

Mrs. DoLAN. Who?

Mr. Arens. Frederick Heuser, H-e-u-s-e-r.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Dolan. I refuse to answer on the same grounds.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4201

Mr. Akens. I would like to read some testimony, Mrs. Dolan, before
Hon. Jean S. Breitenstein, United States district court judj^e. This
testimony was given under oath on April 26, 1955, by Frederick Heu-
ser. I will merely read you an excerpt from that testimony.

Question. Did lie tell you what the security apparatus was in Denver at
that time?

Answer. Yes.

Question. What did he tell you the security apparatus was in Denver?

Answer. He said, If I came over here, that I was to call a number and ask
for Eunice Dolan.

Question. What was that name?

Answer. Eunice Dolan. And that I was to tell her I was some name starting
with "L. P.," like Larry Peters, and I was to go to Sears, Roebuck to their parts,
auto parts, department and carry two magazines under my arm, one a Life
magazine and the other a Colliers, and that the person I was to contact would
carry an unopened package of cigarettes in their left hand. If everything
appeared to be all right, we would make contact. I would walk to that person —

and so forth.

Did you at any time have any contact or conversation with a person
who testified under oath before Judge Breitenstein, namely Frederick
Heuser ?

Mrs. Dolan. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend if you told this committee
the truth with respect to that last principal question you would be
giving information which might be used against you in a criminal
proceeding ?

Mrs. Dolan. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be directed to
answer that question, Mr. Chairman.

The CnAiRiiAN. You are directed to answer the question.

Mrs. Dolan. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been identified with the Women's Inter-
national League for Peace and Freedom ?

Mrs. DoLAN. I am proud of my membership. I have belonged for
a number of years. That organization was organized in 1915 by such
wonderful women as Jane Adams and a few others of her kind, and
I am very proud of my association with those people.

Mr. Arens. How long have you been a member of the Women's
International League for Peace and Freedom ?

Mrs. DoLu\N. I think that I have belonged for 5 or 6 years. It may
be longer than that. I am not sure exactly how long.

Mr. Arens. Back in 1954 was there a big battle developed with-
in the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom among
the members of the Denver chapter over the question of Communist
infiltration of the group?

Mrs. Dolan. No. No.

Mr. Arens. There wasn't?

Mrs. Dolan. No; there wasn't. There was a man, I think, who
joined or tried to join the Women's International League and the
women were extremely suspicious of his membership and I think that
it was because of his activities within the local branch that there was
some difficulty over him, but not on any other basis.

Mr. Arens! "Wliat office or post did you hold in the Women's Inter-
national Leagrue for Peace and Freedom ?

4202 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA

Mrs. DoLAN. I was a member of the executive board as finance
chairman, helpinp^ to raise funds for the activity of the organization.

Mr. Arens. How long did you hold that post, Mrs. Dolan?

Mrs. DoLAN. I think that it was 2 years. We moved out of town.
So I didn't go back on the board.

Mr. Arens. Do you recall the years which you were a member?

Mrs. DoLAN. As finance chairman?

Mr. Arens. Yes.

Mrs. DoLAN. I can't remember which years.

Mr. Arens. 1954, 1955, thereabouts ?

Mrs. DoLAN. We weren't here in 1955, I don't think. I can't re-
member whether we were here all of 1954.

Mr. Arens. "Wliere did you move ?

Mrs. Dolan. We moved to Butte, Mont.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the
time you were identified with the Women's International League for
Peace and Freedom ?

Mrs. Dolan. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.

Mr. Arens. Do j'^ou honestly apprehend if you gave a truthful an-
swer to that question you would be supplying information which might
be used against you in a criminal proceeding ?

JSIrs. Dolan. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness
be directed to answer that question.

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.

Mrs. Dolan. JMr. Chairman, I refuse to answer on the same groimds.

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?

Mrs. Dolan. I refuse to answer that question.

Mr. Arens. Are you now under Communist Party discipline?

Mrs. Dolan. I refuse to answer that question.

Mr. Arens. I take it on the same grounds ?

Mrs. Dolan. On the same grounds. I could talk about the fifth
amendment, but I think you understand what I mean.

Mr. Arens. Tell us, if you please, the organizations to which you
currently belong.

Mrs. Dolan. I don't belong to the Elks. Sometimes it feels like I
have belonged to the PTA all my life, but I think it is actually 20
years.

Mr. Arens. That is in Montana ?

Mrs. Dolan. No, no.

Mr. Arens. You have moved back to Denver ?

Mrs. Dolan. Yes. I gave a local address.

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon. You are correct in that.

Mrs. Dolan. I think it is 20 years this year.

Mr. Arens. Do you hold an office in the PTA ?

Mrs. Dolan. I have held office in various PTA's that I have be-
longed to. I got my 5-year membership in the triple A yesterday. I
belong to the P)1uebird Mothers Club, a mothers' group which is the
junior group of the Camp Fire Girls. I guess that is it.

Mr. Arens. Are those all of the organizations to which you belong?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Dolan. I can't think of any others.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN AREA 4203

Mr. Arens. Is there any otlier organization of any kind, character,
or description to which you now belong?

Mrs. DoLAN. I can't think of any others. I used to belong to the
Newspaper Guild Auxiliary.

Mr. Arens. If you can't think of any others, may I suggest one and
see if you can recall that one. Do you belong to the Communist
Party?

Mrs. DoLAN. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Do you deny you are a member of the Communist
Party?

Mrs. DoLAN. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Have you told us all of the organizations to which you
belong?

Mrs. DoLAN. I have told you the organizations that I can think of
that I belong to.

Mr. Arens. Then there is no other organization to which you belong
that you haven't told us about ; is that correct ?

Mrs. DoLAN, It seems, Mr. Arens, that you have asked that question
several times.

Mr. Arens. I just want to get it clear on this record.

Mrs. DoLAN. I am clear. I thought that I had answered it clearly.
1 am sorry if I don't make myself clear.

The Chairman. Answer the question, then.

Mrs. DoLAN. I can't think of any other organizations. Is that what
you asked me?

Mr. Arens. Yes.

We have no further questions of this witness.

The Chairman. The witness is excused from further attendance
subject to the subpena.

Mr. Arens. We have no further witness for today, Mr. Chairman.
I think it ought to be announced, however, that we attempted to sub-
pena Albert Pezzati and were unable to locate him.

The Chairman. The committee will adjourn to meet tomorrow
morning at 10.

(Whereupon, at 3 : 40 p. m., Wednesday, May 16, the committee was
recessed, to reconvene at 10 a. m. the following day, Thursday, May 17,
1-95G.)

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